1 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,199 I think the moment that I first really 2 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:25,199 knew I wanted to be a writer was 3 00:00:25,199 --> 00:00:27,920 probably almost before I can even 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,640 remember. I've always been a person who 5 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,480 was a storyteller. I don't think I knew 6 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:34,800 I wanted to be a television writer or a 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,800 screenwriter, but I've always been a 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,559 storyteller. It's how I was made. I feel 9 00:00:40,559 --> 00:00:43,920 like I was born a writer. 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,879 Me, on the other hand, I'm kind of 11 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:47,280 screwed. 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,320 We're going to get killed. 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:49,600 Did you propose? Weren't you going to 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,239 ask her tonight? 15 00:00:50,239 --> 00:00:51,440 I was doing this night. Liv, we're going 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,280 to get killed. We're $3 million. 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,239 Are you listening to me? 18 00:00:54,239 --> 00:00:55,680 You'll get for rushing to judgement on a 19 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,280 free trial. 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Well, yeah, that's my job. 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,239 I want to be a gladiator in a suit. I 22 00:01:02,239 --> 00:01:03,600 got to say 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,040 I want to be a gladiator in a suit. 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,760 The discovery that you can make a living 25 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,439 writing is like 26 00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:18,560 I don't know it's like your birthday 27 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,920 every day or something for me because I 28 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,479 was a person who I was writing endlessly 29 00:01:24,479 --> 00:01:26,159 in my journal every day. I was also 30 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:28,240 writing stories every day. I was writing 31 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,799 every day no matter what. It was what 32 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:33,439 sustained me. It's my air. It's my food. 33 00:01:33,439 --> 00:01:36,000 So then to discover that I could make a 34 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,360 living at it felt fantastic. And that I 35 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,880 could make a living at it in a way that 36 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,360 I enjoyed felt fantastic. I wasn't 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,759 writing stuff that I hated. I was 38 00:01:45,759 --> 00:01:48,399 telling my own stories. And how lucky am 39 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:50,240 I to get to do that. And even when I was 40 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,799 writing movies and not necessarily a, 41 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:54,399 you know, a movie that I was thinking to 42 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:57,200 myself, this is my life's work. I still 43 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,119 was telling stories that I felt strongly 44 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,799 about. There's a heart at the in the 45 00:02:00,799 --> 00:02:02,479 center of every story you're telling 46 00:02:02,479 --> 00:02:04,240 that has to be true or else I don't know 47 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,719 why you're writing. So for me, every 48 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:08,640 story was a story I felt really good 49 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,959 about telling. I feel like I'm at a 50 00:02:10,959 --> 00:02:14,319 stage in my career where honestly I'm 51 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:16,480 interested in building the next group of 52 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:17,840 showrunners and the next group of 53 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,720 writers and really making it possible 54 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,440 for people to have better careers and 55 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,920 know more and learn from any mistakes 56 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:30,879 that I have already made because a I'm 57 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:32,879 not going to do this forever, but b 58 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:34,879 what's the point if you're not passing 59 00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:37,920 it on to somebody else frankly and it's 60 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:40,400 exciting to get to do that. It's also 61 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,680 about the fact that, you know, at a 62 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,640 certain point you start to have 63 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:44,800 perspective and can really look back and 64 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,599 see everything from a different angle 65 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:49,200 and sort of start to understand what 66 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,440 works and what doesn't. And and the 67 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,040 minute that starts to happen and it 68 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,440 stops being about you and it starts 69 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,519 being about what you can give back, 70 00:02:57,519 --> 00:02:58,720 that's when you really want to do 71 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,840 something like this. I'm fairly sure I 72 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,360 have never gone into this much detail 73 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,599 about my process. It's really 74 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:08,319 interesting to get to tell all of this 75 00:03:08,319 --> 00:03:10,159 stuff. It's kind of the stuff I really 76 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:13,280 wish that everyone knew because I feel 77 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,640 like it's so helpful. It's the stuff I 78 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,159 wish someone had told me a long time 79 00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:20,480 ago. It would have it probably would 80 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,879 have made a bigger difference. I mean, 81 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:24,560 it would have made things easier on me 82 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:25,680 and I probably would have been less 83 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,440 afraid during a lot of the process. But 84 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,519 it's also the stuff I want new writers 85 00:03:29,519 --> 00:03:31,440 to know when they come into our company. 86 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,680 things about writing dialogue, things 87 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,400 about the way you lay out a story, 88 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,440 things about character. There's a lot to 89 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,599 learn here that would be really helpful. 90 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:43,360 Most of all, a lot of the stuff that I 91 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,799 learned about how to be in a writer's 92 00:03:44,799 --> 00:03:47,360 room, how a writer's room works, I would 93 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,120 have killed to know that. And I'm going 94 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,239 to tell you everything I know about 95 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:53,239 showrunnes 96 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,920 you. You have to learn that as you go. 97 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,080 And if there was a way to learn that, I 98 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,519 would have killed to know that when I 99 00:03:59,519 --> 00:04:01,439 got started. I want you to use this 100 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:03,920 class when you have an idea, when you're 101 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,000 not sure if you have an idea, when 102 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:07,200 you're trying to take your idea and to 103 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,920 turning turn it into something. When you 104 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,319 are trying to figure out what your 105 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:13,680 script is going to be about, when you're 106 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:14,799 trying to figure out how to structure 107 00:04:14,799 --> 00:04:16,720 your script, you can use it once you're 108 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,880 at the rewrite stage. You can use it 109 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,400 when you're trying to take your script 110 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,080 and get it somewhere. You know, this 111 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,520 should be something that you can use to 112 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,120 refer back to. you can go back and look 113 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,040 at again and again as you work on your 114 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,680 script at different stages. Frankly, I'm 115 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,520 opening the doors to my office and I'm 116 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,520 letting you in and you're going to get 117 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,840 to hear all the stuff that I never 118 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:40,080 really ever tell anybody about the way I 119 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,960 write. And I'm excited about that. 120 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,360 My name is Shondaanda Rimes and this is 121 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,639 my master class. 1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,480 I always say, you know, film is for the 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,560 director. It really is. The director 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:17,920 makes all the decisions. It's the 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,359 director's vision. What's in the 5 00:00:19,359 --> 00:00:21,760 director's head is what's on screen. In 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,279 television, what's in the writer's head 7 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:26,000 is what's on screen. You know, in film, 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,920 the director fires the writer. In 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,199 television, the writer fires the 10 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:31,599 director. That's the joke, which isn't 11 00:00:31,599 --> 00:00:32,880 really that funny if you think about it. 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,840 Nobody wants to get fired. But it really 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,079 is this medium in television where when 14 00:00:38,079 --> 00:00:40,160 I think to myself, I want it to look 15 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:43,520 like this interior operating room day. 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,200 They build the operating room that I 17 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,760 imagined. And that's fantastic. 18 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,440 I love the fact that I could have an 19 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,280 idea and that idea can get realized 20 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,039 that quickly. That is extraordinary. 21 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:02,719 I think I love the intimacy of TV. You 22 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:07,119 know, we spend more time 23 00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:09,280 with people in their living rooms. My 24 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,880 characters are in people's living rooms. 25 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,560 People spend more time with them than 26 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,680 they do with members of their own 27 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,240 family. You know, if you um watched 28 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,080 Grays, you spent more time with 29 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,759 Christina Yang than you probably did 30 00:01:21,759 --> 00:01:24,080 with some of your closest friends. So 31 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,040 when she left, you lost a friend and 32 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,880 psychologically that is true. 33 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,600 Emotionally that is true. But also you 34 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,119 went on the journey that she went on. 35 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:34,799 You learned things from her. You were 36 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:36,720 with that character. There's an intimacy 37 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,880 there. And it means that the world 38 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,119 becomes a little bit smaller to me. You 39 00:01:41,119 --> 00:01:43,840 know, 60 countries of people and 207 40 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,640 languages. that show. That means that 41 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,320 the world is a much smaller place than 42 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,479 we thought it was because it means that 43 00:01:50,479 --> 00:01:51,759 all of those people were watching the 44 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:53,280 same shows at the same time and caring 45 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,520 about those characters. The storytelling 46 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,280 in film is very closeended. Obviously, 47 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,079 you you've got three acts. You know, 48 00:02:02,079 --> 00:02:04,159 you've got your hero on a journey and 49 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:07,759 that journey has to end. There's always 50 00:02:07,759 --> 00:02:11,039 sort of a very short character arc for 51 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:13,040 your characters. 52 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,280 a television show. What's wonderful is 53 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,360 that your character or your lead 54 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,120 character or your lead characters, 55 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,080 depending on how you're telling the 56 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,160 story, can go on sort of an endless 57 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,319 journey. It's an endless adventure that 58 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:25,920 you get to tell for as long as you'd 59 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:29,680 like. Um, I've been telling Meredith 60 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,280 Gay's journey for 13 seasons now, and 61 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,680 it's been going on and on and on. And 62 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,040 so, you get to watch a character grow 63 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,440 and change and evolve, which is 64 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,760 exciting. It's just a different level of 65 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,599 activity, I think, and um inner 66 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:50,080 character development. I think all 67 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,319 writing is the same. It's not that the 68 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:53,599 writing for television and the writing 69 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:57,680 for for movies is so different. Um I I 70 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,280 think any lesson I learned writing for 71 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:00,959 movies is very similar to writing for 72 00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:02,879 television. Storytelling, the art of 73 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:05,200 storytelling is fundamentally the same, 74 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,760 which is if you are not writing from 75 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,239 character and what would a character do 76 00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:13,840 and is this actual human behavior then 77 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,840 and you're not writing honestly, it's 78 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,120 not going to resonate and it's not going 79 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,920 to feel real. So to me, it's all the 80 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,159 same in that sense. How you write a 81 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:27,319 story is how you write a story. 82 00:03:30,959 --> 00:03:32,799 I think it's important to read and this 83 00:03:32,799 --> 00:03:34,560 is this to me is a habit that I think is 84 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,239 key. I think it's important to be um 85 00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:40,640 current on current events. I read the 86 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,879 news every day. Like I pick pick a 87 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:44,400 newspaper. I don't care what it is. I 88 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,440 don't care if you have conservative 89 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,840 leanings, liberal leanings. I don't care 90 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,159 what you're reading, but pick a paper 91 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:52,879 and read it every day. Not just so that 92 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:54,959 you know what's happening, but so that 93 00:03:54,959 --> 00:03:57,040 you start to make a story out of what's 94 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,080 happening because that honestly often is 95 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,400 such a great way to a find little 96 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,799 nuggets of ideas, but b give yourself a 97 00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:06,400 sense of storytelling in terms of what's 98 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,519 going on in the world. It's it's just a 99 00:04:09,519 --> 00:04:11,840 a nice way of going. It also gives you 100 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:12,959 something to talk about. It makes you 101 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:14,400 culturally literate in a different kind 102 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,359 of way, and it's another thing to add to 103 00:04:17,359 --> 00:04:20,160 who you are. I read well I read the 104 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,840 Atlantic Monthly which is not daily but 105 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:25,440 monthly. I read the New York Times. I 106 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,840 read the Washington Post. I read um 107 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:31,440 those are the key ones. And then I try 108 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,479 to listen to news on the radio like NPR. 109 00:04:34,479 --> 00:04:37,360 And I try to watch MSNBC and CNN and 110 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,600 ABC. Like I try to go between a bunch of 111 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,360 things so that I'm getting a lot of 112 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,240 different points of view. Me, you know, 113 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:45,520 I think that that's important. How are 114 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,280 people how are people reporting the same 115 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,520 story differently? That's always 116 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,960 fascinating because once again that's 117 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,479 storytelling in a very different kind of 118 00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:56,400 way and often those things end up being 119 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,960 turned into somebody's show or story or 120 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,960 whatever and that's always fascinating 121 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,199 as well. 122 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:11,199 I think one of the best things to do as 123 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:13,759 a writer, um, and I think a lot of 124 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:16,560 people don't do this, is a, you better 125 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,960 really know your television. And I don't 126 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,720 mean like know your television history 127 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,600 in a sense of like you've seen what's 128 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,320 come out in the past 5 years. Like 129 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,680 there's a lot of people who can tell you 130 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,320 like, oh, I've seen Breaking Bad. That's 131 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,160 delightful. And maybe you've seen The 132 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Wire, but did you see Gunsmoke? Have you 133 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,560 seen the West Wing? Did you watch Sane 134 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,639 Elsewhere? Like, you really need to have 135 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:42,800 an actual knowledge of what's been on 136 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,720 television before and why and what the 137 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,280 good stuff was. And that will really 138 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,919 give you an education if you're going to 139 00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:50,639 write if you're going to write 140 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:52,880 television series. Go watch a bunch of 141 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,880 really old television pilots and watch 142 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,520 how television's changed and watch why. 143 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,039 It's the same as you want to read 144 00:05:59,039 --> 00:06:01,199 everything you can get your hands on. I 145 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:03,199 feel like I really worked and watched a 146 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:05,680 lot of television pilots, but I still 147 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,520 try to watch I'm still trying to go back 148 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,680 and watch as many movies as I can and 149 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,680 and fill in the blanks of things I 150 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:12,880 didn't get to see when I was in film 151 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,039 school or might have missed. And I'm 152 00:06:15,039 --> 00:06:16,240 definitely trying to read everything I 153 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,880 get my hands on always. 154 00:06:23,919 --> 00:06:26,000 I think probably the top three things an 155 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,520 emerging television writer should do if 156 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,039 they if they want to write a pilot and 157 00:06:29,039 --> 00:06:31,360 they want it to be good. Um, get your 158 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,160 hands on some pilot scripts. Find the 159 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,880 shows that you loved their pilot and you 160 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,319 thought, "Man, if only I could have 161 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:40,080 written something like this." Get your 162 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,360 hands on those pilot scripts. They're 163 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,199 easy to find now. Um, read them and then 164 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,759 watch the pilots again and then read the 165 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:48,960 scripts again and then really just start 166 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,800 to dissect the pilots. What was the 167 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,880 structure? How did they work? How many 168 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,400 acts did they use? What were the page 169 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,280 counts of each act? Why? If it's a 170 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:59,919 comedy, how many jokes did they have? 171 00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:02,639 You know, every last aspect of those 172 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:04,400 things is important. How do they 173 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,080 introduce the characters? So, dissect 174 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,960 the scripts. Dissect the pilots. One. 175 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,440 Two. Then go watch some pilots that 176 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,400 really didn't work that you thought I 177 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,919 mean for you they didn't work. You 178 00:07:15,919 --> 00:07:17,599 thought they were terrible. If you go 179 00:07:17,599 --> 00:07:18,800 watch some pilots that you really, 180 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,199 really hated, you will see very 181 00:07:21,199 --> 00:07:22,960 different things. and you will learn a 182 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,120 bunch of stuff about what does not work. 183 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,960 I think it's absolutely essential 184 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,639 actually to pick a show, a show that you 185 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:31,360 love, a show that you think is good and 186 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,840 dissect the crap out of it. Frankly, 187 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,919 take a show you love. Um, for me, I did 188 00:07:35,919 --> 00:07:38,880 The West Wing. I am obsessed with Aaron 189 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,160 Sorcin. I think Aaron Sorcin is a 190 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,840 genius, truly. And I took the West Wing 191 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,000 and from the pilot through I think 192 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,039 season three and I dissected the heck 193 00:07:49,039 --> 00:07:50,720 out of that show for myself to really 194 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,440 understand a what good storytelling was, 195 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,960 b what good structure was and just 196 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,000 understanding how he used language and 197 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,840 how he used structure and how he built 198 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,639 characters. It was really an education 199 00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:07,520 for me to the point where I could pretty 200 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,039 much 201 00:08:09,039 --> 00:08:11,280 like do an entire like episode. I could 202 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,400 say all the words of the entire an 203 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:13,840 entire episode because I liked it so 204 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,800 much. And while I'm bummed now because I 205 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,440 can't watch that show and just watch it 206 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,039 anymore, 207 00:08:21,039 --> 00:08:23,759 I can say that it was an excellent way 208 00:08:23,759 --> 00:08:26,240 for me to learn so much about television 209 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,520 at a time in which I was trying to 210 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,680 figure it out for myself. Probably one 211 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,199 of the things I learned by watching the 212 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:36,959 West Wing was the need to be original in 213 00:08:36,959 --> 00:08:40,560 my use of dialogue, the need to not copy 214 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:44,399 anybody, the need to not be simple in my 215 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,560 use of dialogue, and I also got the 216 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:48,320 freedom to let my characters be 217 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,360 intelligent, which I really thought was 218 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,600 great. Um, it was one of those things 219 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,120 where you watch something and you think 220 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,839 like, oh, in everything else I've ever 221 00:08:57,839 --> 00:08:59,680 seen, there seems to be a slight dumbing 222 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:03,920 down. And Aaron felt like he was making 223 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,160 everyone a little bit smarter than the 224 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,240 audience. And that was a a very freeing 225 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,560 thing to see because letting your 226 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:14,000 characters be the smartest people in the 227 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,839 room 228 00:09:15,839 --> 00:09:18,800 is a relief in a lot of ways. There are 229 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,320 things that you can learn just by 230 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,959 watching that are not about copying how 231 00:09:22,959 --> 00:09:24,560 something's done, but just by 232 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:27,680 understanding how something's done or 233 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,320 discovering that sometimes it's really 234 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,240 effective to have an episode where 235 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,640 things are really quiet. You know, it's 236 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,560 just about watching and seeing what 237 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,720 makes something good and then 238 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,240 understanding 239 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,320 that those maybe they're breaking a rule 240 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,000 or maybe those are some rules to think 241 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,160 about and then understanding what makes 242 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,279 something not good. It's helpful 243 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,360 at this point. What's amazing and 244 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000 exciting for you is that there are as 245 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,440 many different types of dramas as you 246 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,399 can make up in your head. You know, 247 00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:06,320 because there are so many mediums in 248 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,519 which to put your shows, you can do 249 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:12,560 almost anything. And even if it hasn't 250 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:14,399 been imagined yet, there is a space for 251 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:17,680 it. It's no longer, you know, the old 252 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:19,839 world in which there were procedurals 253 00:10:19,839 --> 00:10:22,000 and serialized dramas and that was 254 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,640 pretty much it. You know, the dramdy, 255 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,399 maybe that was a piece of it, but that's 256 00:10:26,399 --> 00:10:28,640 all you had. Now, there are so many 257 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,200 other options available to you. Do you 258 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,560 want to tell a sci-fi period piece? 259 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,040 Fantastic. Do you want to tell a 260 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,440 serialized procedural with, I don't 261 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560 know, sci-fi elements? Great. there's a 262 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:46,320 way to do almost anything in any way. 263 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,600 And so you shouldn't feel, you know, 264 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,240 hemmed in by any of those rules. What I 265 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,399 do recommend though is that you do 266 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:56,320 become familiar with what an actual 267 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,720 procedural looks like. You know, what a 268 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,200 law and order looks like, with what a 269 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,680 serialized a purely serialized show 270 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:07,200 looks like, um, like a lost looks like, 271 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,920 so that you understand how those shows 272 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,720 work. So that when you then want to go 273 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,519 and break all the rules, you know what 274 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:18,320 rules you're breaking. 1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,160 People always ask like where do your 2 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,519 ideas come from? Where do you get your 3 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:19,279 inspiration? And for me that is such a 4 00:00:19,279 --> 00:00:21,359 that's such a crazy question. I don't 5 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:23,279 know how to answer it all the time. And 6 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:25,920 I think it's because my ideas come from 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,800 everywhere. Your ideas should come from 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,199 everywhere. They come from a 9 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:33,440 conversation I have with somebody. 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,320 They'll come from a fight I overhear 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,800 while standing in a coffee shop. They'll 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,840 come from, you know, I'll read some tiny 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,000 little thing in an obituary somewhere 14 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,680 and I'll go, "Oh, that's a funny little 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,640 detail." It doesn't really matter where 16 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:49,920 they come from. They come from 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,079 everything. They come from, you know, 18 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:53,360 you're sitting in a park and you just 19 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,680 see the way two people interact. 20 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,399 something sparks something and that 21 00:00:58,399 --> 00:00:59,920 always turns into something completely 22 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,480 different. It's not like you get an 23 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,159 exact, 24 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:05,760 you know, you hear an exact sentence 25 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,880 from somebody and you go, I'm going to 26 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,119 write a television show about that. It's 27 00:01:09,119 --> 00:01:10,960 somebody says something to you that then 28 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:12,320 turns into something else that then 29 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:13,840 turns into something more and then next 30 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,080 you know it's bloomed into a whole idea. 31 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,560 That happens to me all the time and it's 32 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,640 about which ones you're going to settle 33 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,600 down and write really because ideas are 34 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,280 great. You have a ton of them. They're 35 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,280 not all necessarily television series. 36 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,880 When I have ideas, a couple of things 37 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,640 happen. I I have a journal that I keep. 38 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,040 I've always kept a journal. And 39 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,200 sometimes I write them down. Sometimes I 40 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,240 wake up in the middle of the night and I 41 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,240 write the ideas down. And I used to a 42 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,680 ton. I used to do it a lot. I don't do 43 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,200 it as much anymore. Um, mainly because I 44 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,200 have children now and I value my sleep a 45 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,320 lot more, but also because the things 46 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,360 you write down in the middle of the 47 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,399 night very rarely make sense. 48 00:02:04,399 --> 00:02:05,600 Like in the morning, you can never 49 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,000 figure out what they meant. What I have 50 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,879 started doing is taking notes in the 51 00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:14,480 little notes section of my phone, which 52 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,200 is surprisingly effective. Not just 53 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,760 because you can dictate, which you can, 54 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,480 but also because it's always readily 55 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,319 available. And I'm surprised at how many 56 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:28,239 times I write something down. It does 57 00:02:28,239 --> 00:02:30,160 not necessarily have to be an idea as 58 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,400 much as it is a tiny line of dialogue, 59 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,000 which is where I wrote Gladiator in a 60 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,160 suit. Um, or it's, you know, just a 61 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,239 thought that you had like, why is this a 62 00:02:40,239 --> 00:02:42,000 thing, you know, like why blah blah blah 63 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,040 blah. It's very interesting that that's 64 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,319 a place where you can sort of keep a 65 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:47,599 running tally of the things that you 66 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:48,720 might have written on little post-it 67 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,959 notes all over your house. There's a 68 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:55,160 place to keep it all. And I like that. 69 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:00,480 When I'm looking at an idea and I'm 70 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,120 wondering um is this an idea for film, 71 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,879 is this an idea for television? Is it a 72 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:07,519 movie? Is it a TV show? What you're 73 00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:09,519 really looking for is what's the end of 74 00:03:09,519 --> 00:03:11,280 the idea? 75 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,560 Um, a movie idea has an ending. You 76 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,400 know, you can you can say and the bus 77 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,720 that's been going, you know, 60 miles an 78 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,120 hour and hitting everything in speed 79 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,879 comes to a halt and the guy gets the 80 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:27,280 girl. That is not a television series. 81 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,480 There's not going to be, you know, every 82 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,480 episode a bus that has to go 60 m hour 83 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,040 or whatever it is. But a television 84 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,799 series has endless stories. You know, 85 00:03:36,799 --> 00:03:38,720 you look at something and you go, what 86 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,879 stories could we tell with this? you 87 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:42,959 know what what other stories could we 88 00:03:42,959 --> 00:03:44,959 tell and you think like oh I can do this 89 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:47,519 I can do that. I remember when I met 90 00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:50,799 Judy Smith who is the inspiration for um 91 00:03:50,799 --> 00:03:53,360 Olivia Pope and Scandal and we sat down 92 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,200 to talk and we talked for I think it was 93 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,400 we were supposed to talk for 15 minutes 94 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:57,680 but we ended up talking for like 4 95 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,519 hours. When she left I literally could 96 00:04:01,519 --> 00:04:03,599 see 400 episodes of television. Like I 97 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:05,840 had I was like this is endless just in 98 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,280 terms of what the cases could be and 99 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,599 what the stories could be. There was so 100 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:12,319 much in there about thinking about what 101 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,280 she did and how it all worked. That is 102 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,199 how you know. You think to yourself, I 103 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:19,600 could endlessly tell stories about this. 104 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,000 You know, with Grace, I thought, well, 105 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,520 there's a million kinds of surgeries and 106 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,800 there are a million challenges and 107 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,800 frankly they spend seven years as a 108 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,000 surgical resident. So, at the very 109 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,600 least, I have seven seasons in this 110 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,280 show. 111 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,000 Those are the that's how you know there 112 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,520 it's not close-ended. You don't know 113 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:36,880 what the end of the series is. is you 114 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,080 don't know what the end is exactly. 115 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,759 For me, I know an idea is something real 116 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:51,120 or or possibly a series or maybe going 117 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,560 to be something when 118 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,240 it's like a song that you can't get out 119 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,720 of your head. So, it'll it'll I'll have 120 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,080 this idea and I'll think, well, that's 121 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,360 interesting. And then it won't go away. 122 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,400 And I'll wait for it to go away. I'll be 123 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,360 really hoping it goes away. Um, but then 124 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,720 it won't. And after a while, what starts 125 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,400 to happen is characters start to wrap 126 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,639 themselves around the idea. And then now 127 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:19,120 I have characters and this idea. And 128 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,639 then I start to have scenes in my head 129 00:05:20,639 --> 00:05:23,520 and this idea. And then after a while, I 130 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,160 start bothering everybody around me by 131 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,520 pitching them this idea. Um, so, you 132 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,360 know, my four-year-old will be like, 133 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,680 "That's that's great, mommy." Um, my 134 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,120 siblings will will listen to me 135 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,880 patiently. People at work will listen to 136 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,160 me patiently. And what's interesting 137 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,800 about that part of it is when they start 138 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,320 to ask you questions about it, you have 139 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,320 to really pay attention to the questions 140 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,680 because their questions will tell you 141 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,639 whether or not this idea is worth it. 142 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:52,400 Um, if this idea is actually something 143 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,759 or not. Um, they'll sort of say, you 144 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:57,919 know, well then what happens or how's it 145 00:05:57,919 --> 00:06:00,160 going to end or who what did you mean? 146 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,759 And if what you're saying doesn't make 147 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:03,280 any sense to them, you have to really 148 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:04,960 think. But if they want to know what 149 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,479 happens next, they're interested and 150 00:06:06,479 --> 00:06:09,639 they're intrigued. 151 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,600 I don't know if there's a a formula for 152 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,919 what makes a great TV idea in terms of 153 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:21,919 all TV ideas, but I can say that 154 00:06:21,919 --> 00:06:27,199 for me and really truly any TV show, a 155 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:29,520 good TV idea has to have a compelling 156 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,280 character, has to have compelling main 157 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,240 characters with compelling dilemmas. You 158 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,800 know, even in comedies and in dramas, 159 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,319 you cannot have a show that is about 160 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:42,880 people who are fairly unoriginal. You've 161 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,560 seen them all before, doing fairly 162 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,000 unoriginal things that you've seen all 163 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,000 before. You, if that's what your show 164 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,639 is, it's not a show. I mean, it's just a 165 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:53,199 it's a cliche. So, you really want 166 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:54,720 compelling characters doing compelling 167 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,319 things in original ways. Period. You 168 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:00,880 know, if you're making Grey's Anatomy in 169 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,120 a cornfield, you already have a bad 170 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,000 idea. You know, Grey's Anatomy in a but 171 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,319 with a newspaper, bad idea. Um, and I 172 00:07:10,319 --> 00:07:12,479 say that mainly because you're already 173 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:15,199 trying to copy something and it's not 174 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:17,039 original. If you can describe it in that 175 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:21,039 way, that simply, it should it shouldn't 176 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:23,280 be done. You should be striving to make 177 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,039 something purely original that's your 178 00:07:25,039 --> 00:07:27,199 own. It might turn out to be something 179 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:28,880 that everybody else describes as that 180 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,800 and that's fine, but it shouldn't be how 181 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,039 you're describing it. The way you know 182 00:07:33,039 --> 00:07:35,759 you have a fresh take is is if it feels 183 00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:38,319 surprising. Frankly, when people are a 184 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:41,280 little bit suspicious of your idea and 185 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:42,880 they're not quite sure it will work. 186 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,479 Sometimes that's when you know you have 187 00:07:44,479 --> 00:07:46,240 exactly the right thing because 188 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,960 everybody in executive land in the in 189 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,479 the money-making side, they always want 190 00:07:50,479 --> 00:07:52,319 whatever it is they just saw before. 191 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:54,639 It's safe. So, you just don't want to be 192 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:57,280 safe. I don't think it's a smart idea to 193 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,840 come at it from the idea of I want it to 194 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,720 be safe or I want it not to be safe. 195 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,479 Especially to go like I want to be the 196 00:08:04,479 --> 00:08:06,720 most outrageous I can be or I'm going to 197 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,120 make sure I'm different. That's also not 198 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,840 creative. That's not having an idea. 199 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,639 That's being bold for bold's sake. And 200 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:16,639 I've seen that happen and I've seen that 201 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:20,240 not work either. I think 202 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,080 I think you know you have something that 203 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,160 appeals to you and then you have to look 204 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,639 at it from the angles of is this an 205 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:29,199 original idea or am I just inspired by 206 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:32,479 something that I saw and am I just sort 207 00:08:32,479 --> 00:08:34,800 of doing it again? 208 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,320 Is it truly original or is it just a 209 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,320 remake? 210 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,680 I think one of the factors that you 211 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,000 really do need to consider are sort of 212 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,240 what's happening in the world, what the 213 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,839 outside 214 00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:55,760 world is doing right now, both in 215 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,399 television and in reality, um, and in 216 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,360 movies, frankly. You know, I wrote a 217 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:02,959 pilot called, you know, about war 218 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:04,959 correspondents at a time in which we 219 00:09:04,959 --> 00:09:07,600 were going to war. not the smartest idea 220 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,880 because nobody really wanted to see 221 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,519 people having fun, you know, covering 222 00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:13,440 war, but you and you really have to 223 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,000 think about where are we sort of as a 224 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,680 country. Where are we politically? Where 225 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,760 are we in terms of the news, especially 226 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,519 because you're talking about not just 227 00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:24,399 viewers, but consumers of people who are 228 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:25,519 buying it and putting it out there to 229 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:27,920 consumers in the marketplace. When I 230 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,760 made Scandal, what was interesting about 231 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,519 that for me in terms of looking around 232 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:33,040 and seeing what was happening in the 233 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,360 landscape of the country and what I 234 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,040 thought people would want to see is, 235 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,920 you know, it's a very cynical show. Uh, 236 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:46,160 and it's based on the concept truly that 237 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,920 Washington is a place filled with 238 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,240 monsters, metaphorical monsters that the 239 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,000 rest of the country never will 240 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,000 understand and never will get to see 241 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,640 because the dark parts of Washington are 242 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,800 completely hidden and are so dark that 243 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,720 if America ever saw them, you know, 244 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:01,920 their heads would explode from the 245 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,360 horror basically. And the only reason I 246 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,040 felt comfortable telling that story and 247 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,800 I knew that people could enjoy watching 248 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,680 that story was because we were in the 249 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,320 midst of sort of the glow of yes we can 250 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Obama White House. It was a very 251 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,519 positive, cheerful, optimistic period of 252 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,839 time politically in Washington. It felt 253 00:10:21,839 --> 00:10:25,040 a little polyiana in a lot of ways and 254 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,240 people felt comfortable with that. The 255 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,240 same way West Wing happened in a time 256 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,800 when things were a little bit darker and 257 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,800 people felt pessimistic about the world 258 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,240 and West Wing is an incredibly 259 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,800 optimistic show and that helped people 260 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,800 in the other direction. It was really 261 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,760 escape to watch that um Scandal is an 262 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,079 escape to watch for the other reason. 263 00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:47,760 So, you know, those were two sort of 264 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,760 dueling things. But I do think that you 265 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,760 make a show based on is it okay to be 266 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:52,959 optimistic? Is it okay to be 267 00:10:52,959 --> 00:10:56,480 pessimistic, ironic, whatever? That felt 268 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,200 important to to understand that I could 269 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,600 be pessimistic because the world was in 270 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,320 an optimistic place. 271 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,560 I would love to say that commerce has 272 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,640 nothing to do with my ideas and I never 273 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,240 think about what the network wants and I 274 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,279 just give them something and say, 275 00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:20,079 "You'll put this on the air." 276 00:11:20,079 --> 00:11:23,680 But it's not true. Mainly because when I 277 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,680 first started out, that's not how things 278 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,200 work. You don't just get to write 279 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,800 whatever you want and then somebody 280 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,160 magically puts it on the air. We're not 281 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,600 princesses. We're not wearing tiaras. 282 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,240 It's not it's not the world. We all have 283 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,480 to feed ourselves. 284 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,959 But also, there's something kind of 285 00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:42,160 great about the assignment of something. 286 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,680 And the reason I say that is because as 287 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,079 writers, I don't know about you, but 288 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:48,240 getting me sitting down at my computer 289 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,160 to write something in the beginning was 290 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,200 always the hardest part of anything. So 291 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,120 having an assignment of something makes 292 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,279 things easier. Give me some fences to 293 00:11:57,279 --> 00:11:59,680 play in and I can play all day. So to 294 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,000 me, I would say, you know, what is what 295 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,600 are the studios looking for? And you 296 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:04,959 can, you know, every year they always 297 00:12:04,959 --> 00:12:08,560 have their interesting ideas. We want a 298 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:10,560 spy show. We want medical shows. We want 299 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,240 action shows. we want this. We're 300 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:13,519 interested in character this year. We 301 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:16,320 want to time travel. Whatever it is, 302 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,480 that's a little bit like a challenge. 303 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,000 And if you're a competitive person, can 304 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,920 I write the best one of those? If 305 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,200 everybody's looking for a medical show, 306 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,120 can I write the best one of all the ones 307 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,040 they're looking for? Everybody wants a 308 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,320 time travel show. Can I write the best 309 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,720 time travel show anyone's ever seen? 310 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,000 It's it's a little frustrating sometimes 311 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,040 because sometimes you don't want to 312 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,800 write within those fences. And so, 313 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,480 don't. 314 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,959 But if you do want to and you can, then 315 00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:44,240 do it. That's sort of the way it works. 316 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:45,600 And it's always good to at least know 317 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,120 what the marketplace is looking for. So 318 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,399 if you choose not to, then you're at 319 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:53,279 least consciously stepping outside of 320 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:54,880 the fences of what the marketplace is 321 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,959 saying. 322 00:12:56,959 --> 00:13:00,079 I decided to make a medical show for a 323 00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:02,399 very simple reason. I had written a 324 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:04,399 pilot about war correspondents that I 325 00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:07,279 loved. and I'm a very competitive person 326 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:10,000 and I wanted to make my pilot and I 327 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,240 remember saying well what does Bob Iger 328 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,720 who runs Disney's chairman of Disney I 329 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,800 said what does Bob Iger want what kind 330 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,600 of show does Bob Iger want and they said 331 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,839 Bob Iger wants a medical show and I 332 00:13:21,839 --> 00:13:24,959 thought great I like surgery that seems 333 00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:26,560 interesting and I had really been as one 334 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:27,600 of those people who watched those 335 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,040 surgeries that happened on the science 336 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,000 channels and so I wrote a surgical show 337 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,160 I don't know if he had said I like shows 338 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,880 about race cars, I seriously doubt I 339 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:37,839 would have been able to come up with 340 00:13:37,839 --> 00:13:39,600 something. But because it was about 341 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,680 surgery and I am fascinated by all 342 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,160 things scientific and I'm fascinated by 343 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,440 what happens when people go under the 344 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,160 knife that was great for me. I thought, 345 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,560 well, this is an area I understand. And 346 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,240 I could come up with a show that went 347 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,200 with that and and run with that idea. It 348 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,839 worked perfectly. It's smart if you want 349 00:13:57,839 --> 00:14:00,399 to make a show to think about the fact 350 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:02,560 every once in a while that television is 351 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,920 a business. You know, it is for me most 352 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,160 of all an art, but it is very smart to 353 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,760 remember that for the people who are 354 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,000 wearing suits, it's a business. What do 355 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,040 they need? And can your art meet that 1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Here's 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,080 the difference between an idea and a 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,240 premise. An idea is, you know, what if I 4 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,439 wrote a show about gangsters? A premise 5 00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:23,039 is 6 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:25,840 really filling that out. It's what if I 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,160 wrote a show about modern-day gangsters 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,080 who lived in New Jersey and that 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,160 gangster went to see a therapist on a 10 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,079 weekly basis because they had problems. 11 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:35,920 The Sopranos. That's the difference 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,760 between an idea and a premise. And I 13 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,600 think that makes it really clear because 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,040 the more specific the idea is, the more 15 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,559 it becomes a premise. That's a good way 16 00:00:44,559 --> 00:00:46,160 to think about it really. You're taking 17 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,960 an idea, you're you're sort of honing in 18 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,039 on it. You're thinking, I want to do a 19 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:54,800 show about surgeons. Um, I want to do a 20 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,640 show about surgical interns. I want to 21 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,719 do a show about, you know, female 22 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:00,320 surgical interns and how hard it is to 23 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,399 be them. I'd love to do a show about 24 00:01:02,399 --> 00:01:03,760 female friendship while they're surgical 25 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:05,600 interns. They need to be competitive. 26 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Uh, a woman whose mother was a surgical 27 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,479 intern, a s famous surgeon and what's 28 00:01:10,479 --> 00:01:12,159 that like to have that as your history 29 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:13,680 and then you're struggling to live up to 30 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,200 something. You know, the more specific 31 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:16,799 you become as you think about who the 32 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:18,799 characters are and what the world is, 33 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:21,119 the better it can be. You know, anybody 34 00:01:21,119 --> 00:01:23,840 can say, "I want to do a medical show," 35 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,520 but you have to do a medical show that's 36 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,119 about something very specific in order 37 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:29,680 to make it, I don't know, just an 38 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,680 original idea. You know, we can all I 39 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,920 want to do a show about astronauts, yes, 40 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,920 but that's not the same as wanting to do 41 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,840 a show about a very specific piece of 42 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,840 that. Think about just even journalism. 43 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,159 Who, what, why, when, where, and how. If 44 00:01:44,159 --> 00:01:46,240 you can't answer those questions, you 45 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,159 don't have anything to talk about yet. 46 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:50,240 You really need to be able to say the 47 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:51,840 who and the what and the why and the 48 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,240 when and the where and the how. And as 49 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,840 well, what are the central conflicts? 50 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,280 What do the characters need? What do 51 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,600 they want? What are they searching for? 52 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,600 You should be able to tell somebody your 53 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,240 premise in a couple of sentences, and 54 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,240 have it be able to be clearly stated so 55 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,640 that they can understand it. I want to 56 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:10,000 do a show about competitive surgical 57 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,000 interns, the the center of which is 58 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,160 Meredith Gray, a woman who's hiding the 59 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,920 fact that her mother has Alzheimer's. 60 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:17,599 You know, you really want to be able to 61 00:02:17,599 --> 00:02:20,000 be concise so that when you're telling 62 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,760 your story, you know what you're talking 63 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,040 about. If you don't know what you're 64 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,239 talking about, no one else will either. 65 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:32,959 I think when you're developing a story, 66 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:34,879 you know, I don't necessarily think of 67 00:02:34,879 --> 00:02:37,599 it as, you know, there needs to be this 68 00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:39,120 character, this structure, it has to be 69 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,560 this genre. I don't think of it that 70 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,760 specifically. I mostly 71 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,599 and I think that it it's more organic 72 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:49,280 this way. I mostly try to think who who 73 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,720 am I telling a story about and what 74 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,720 story am I telling? I look at it that 75 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,360 way and I really try to make sure I can 76 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,080 tell a story. And I don't know if that's 77 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,319 helpful, but for me everything is about 78 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:04,480 the journey of the character. Who is 79 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,640 this person? What journey are they on? 80 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,560 And what are they supposed to learn? 81 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,319 What do they need? What do they want? 82 00:03:10,319 --> 00:03:12,080 and what are we giving them? What are 83 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,040 their obstacles? It's really about that. 84 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,680 And then once you understand who you're 85 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,400 writing about and what they're supposed 86 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,239 to be learning, what do they want? What 87 00:03:22,239 --> 00:03:23,920 their obstacles are going to be, then 88 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:25,440 you can start really thinking about how 89 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,200 you're going to structure something. 90 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,280 Grays is a show with a big procedural 91 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,720 element in that there's a there are 92 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,440 medical cases every episode. You have to 93 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,440 do surgery on someone and save a life or 94 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,879 lose a life, one or the other, in every 95 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:38,400 episode. And it's about how the doctors 96 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,280 learn from those cases. So that has to 97 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,599 happen in every episode. 98 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:46,080 That means that you have to have the 99 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,120 same sort of here's our medical case, 100 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,640 here's our second medical case, here's 101 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,319 what our doctors are going to do, and 102 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:53,840 then you have to have your serialized 103 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,440 element, here's where Meredith is, 104 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,360 here's where Alex is, here's what's 105 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,439 going to happen with our characters, 106 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,280 here's our theme, here's our voiceover. 107 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,840 That makes for a very sort of clean way 108 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,439 of breaking story. For private practice, 109 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:10,239 it was much more amorphous. We dealt 110 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:11,920 with the moral and ethical issues of 111 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,280 medicine. It's a really interesting way 112 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,720 of talking about the dichotomy of 113 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,799 medical shows. It dealt with what would 114 00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:19,840 I do if it were me in this medical case. 115 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:21,440 If I was, you know, stuck in this 116 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,000 medical situation. because of that it 117 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,919 was it always had to be something that 118 00:04:25,919 --> 00:04:28,560 was sort of emotionally devastating or 119 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,840 or something that would be just be a 120 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:33,360 hard decision to make. So you had to 121 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,000 find whatever that was and then you had 122 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,440 all of your serialized elements that 123 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,360 went around it. That meant that you were 124 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,880 planning it in a very different way 125 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,680 because you were looking for a case that 126 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,520 wasn't about how the doctors felt about 127 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,240 the case as much as it was what you were 128 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,440 looking for something gut-wrenching 129 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,440 frankly that was really going to leave 130 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,520 you want I wanted people to be talking 131 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,680 about it over dinner the next day. I 132 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:56,720 wanted people to be having a 133 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,240 conversation about what would you do if 134 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,720 that was you. So that was about finding 135 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,040 that kind of case and sometimes more 136 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,720 about that than about almost anything 137 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,639 else. 138 00:05:06,639 --> 00:05:09,759 scandal because it was fully serialized 139 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:12,240 and generally I mean there there was a 140 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,160 procedural element but generally it was 141 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,080 about this big blown crazy dark monster 142 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,479 world of politicians. 143 00:05:20,479 --> 00:05:23,919 There was no planning of that show. We 144 00:05:23,919 --> 00:05:26,479 sit in a room, we talk about everything 145 00:05:26,479 --> 00:05:29,360 and it is a week-to-eek situation. So in 146 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,199 order to plan one episode and get to the 147 00:05:31,199 --> 00:05:33,039 next one, in order to get to the next 148 00:05:33,039 --> 00:05:34,240 episode, you had to plan the one before 149 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,120 it. There was no way to say um you go 150 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,120 plan episode six while we work on 151 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,560 episode four because you couldn't plan 152 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:41,919 episode six until you knew what episode 153 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:44,960 five was. That is just how the show lays 154 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:50,000 out simply because it unfolds like a 155 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,840 crazy story that never has an end. 156 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,199 There's no way to crack that. We keep 157 00:05:55,199 --> 00:05:56,080 talking about how we're going to crack 158 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,840 that. We never crack it. That's just how 159 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,560 that show works. And I think every show 160 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,320 has its own way of telling itself. 161 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,800 When developing a show, I think it 162 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,039 really is important to think about tone 163 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:15,680 and to understand the tone of your show. 164 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,520 You know, I really give a lot of thought 165 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,479 to how I wanted to feel while I was 166 00:06:20,479 --> 00:06:21,840 watching Grays. You know, I always think 167 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:25,360 about I write shows that I want to watch 168 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,720 and I think that's important because it 169 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,319 keeps me interested. I don't write shows 170 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:30,800 that I think other people want to watch 171 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,240 because you have to think about the fact 172 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,400 that while it might be great to write a 173 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,919 show other people want to watch, you 174 00:06:35,919 --> 00:06:37,919 then have to write that show. And 175 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:39,600 sometimes you have to write that show 176 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,919 for 13 seasons. I don't know how I could 177 00:06:41,919 --> 00:06:44,960 write and be in charge of almost 300 178 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,800 episodes of television if I was not 179 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,919 interested in that show. So writing 180 00:06:49,919 --> 00:06:51,759 something I want to watch, the tone of 181 00:06:51,759 --> 00:06:53,600 that had to feel like something I was 182 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,600 interested in seeing. 183 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,520 The tone of, if you think about it, the 184 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,199 tone of season one of Grays was very 185 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:02,240 light. It felt like it it had its darker 186 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,479 beats, but it was a very light tone and 187 00:07:04,479 --> 00:07:07,919 felt very um sort of like an adventure. 188 00:07:07,919 --> 00:07:09,440 They were on a medical adventure of 189 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,360 discovering things. It was funny and it 190 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,440 had a little joy to it, but it wasn't 191 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,280 too serious. Scandal had a much darker 192 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,400 tone purposely. It was really about the 193 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,560 burdens of 194 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,440 of the sins that you had, you know, 195 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,160 already committed and the crimes the 196 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,440 personal crimes that you had committed, 197 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,120 but also the responsibilities that you 198 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,800 carried and the loneliness of that for 199 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,039 both her Olivia Pope and for the 200 00:07:35,039 --> 00:07:37,599 president and for you know Cyrus even. 201 00:07:37,599 --> 00:07:39,199 So to me, there was something really 202 00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,400 interesting about layering that in. 203 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,319 Those tones 204 00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:46,080 are really important because you don't 205 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,000 want to abandon them too quickly. But if 206 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,520 you'll watch Grace, you'll notice that 207 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,000 that tone changes over time as the 208 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,960 characters do. In a television series, 209 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,479 the life of a series, you have to think 210 00:07:58,479 --> 00:08:00,639 about the fact that 211 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:03,039 um Grae is a different show every 212 00:08:03,039 --> 00:08:05,759 season. As far as I'm concerned, I end 213 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:08,160 the show and I begin a different show 214 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,560 every season. Otherwise, it feels like 215 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,720 it's going to become sort of stale. So, 216 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,639 the tone to me is different every single 217 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:17,639 season. 218 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,639 A story bible is when you submit um 219 00:08:24,639 --> 00:08:26,080 well, it's not even submitting. It's 220 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,639 creating a document, however many pages 221 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:32,399 long depending on who you are, that has 222 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:34,000 um paragraphs and pages on the 223 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,320 characters, um who they are and where 224 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,399 they're going. It has pages on each 225 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:42,560 episode. And for me, that meant for 226 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:45,760 Gray's like what's Meredith Gay Meredith 227 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:46,959 Gray going to be giving a voiceover 228 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:49,200 about? What's the theme going to be? 229 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,959 What are the medical cases going to be? 230 00:08:50,959 --> 00:08:52,000 And then what's going to be happening to 231 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,279 the characters in each episode? They 232 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:57,040 were very specific. And I did I think 12 233 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:58,399 of them and I think they were like sort 234 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,040 of two pages each for each one. I think 235 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,399 we're handing those out to you guys so 236 00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:04,160 you guys are going to get them. But what 237 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,680 was great about making those story 238 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:07,839 bibles, that story bible specifically, 239 00:09:07,839 --> 00:09:10,399 was that it really provided me with a 240 00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:12,720 template of what my show was. And it 241 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,399 allowed me before we even started making 242 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:17,600 the show to step back and look at it and 243 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,080 go, "Okay, there is a template for how 244 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,800 to make this show." When I did my story 245 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,399 bible for Grey's Anatomy, there were 12 246 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:29,040 episode ideas that I submitted for that 247 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,839 show. And I think we might have done 248 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:35,920 almost all of them season 1. We actually 249 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,320 used them. I think it's important to 250 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,440 know what you want to do and to to do it 251 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,360 to have real ideas that are useful and 252 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,399 usable. Frankly, you have time before 253 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:48,160 the show starts to actually do that kind 254 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,519 of research and to come up with those 255 00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:51,839 ideas. Once the trains start going, once 256 00:09:51,839 --> 00:09:53,200 the show has been picked up and you 257 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,120 start production, it's way harder to 258 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,920 come up with things. So, be useful. Use 259 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,680 that time. Do some real thinking about 260 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,920 what you want your show to be. And 261 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,440 frankly, be thoughtful about it. If 262 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,600 you're going to submit some ideas and 263 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,440 have some, 264 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,600 be, I don't know, be resourceful. Come 265 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,240 up with really good stuff. 266 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,120 Show titles are very interesting. People 267 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,360 feel like they really need to know what 268 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,839 their show is called really early on. 269 00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:26,720 Every pilot I've ever done has been 270 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,600 written and pitched, written, and shot 271 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,279 as the untitled Shondaanda Rhymes 272 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:35,519 Project. Every last one. Mainly because 273 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:37,519 it's too difficult to try to come up 274 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:39,519 with a title. 275 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:41,200 Usually there's a certain point at which 276 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,640 I think I know what the title's going to 277 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,959 be and then it sounds ridiculous in my 278 00:10:44,959 --> 00:10:48,720 head later or it's really long and odd. 279 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,560 I think 280 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,560 you know Pete Noak who created How to 281 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:54,160 Get Away with Murder, he knew he wanted 282 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,519 to call that show How to Get Away with 283 00:10:55,519 --> 00:10:57,440 Murder and he was very smart at getting 284 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,440 that title in there because he had Viola 285 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:00,880 Davis say it right there in the 286 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,200 beginning of the pilot. Um you know they 287 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,800 love to test titles and think about 288 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,600 titles and talk about titles. I am 289 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,600 notoriously bad at it. I think for a 290 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,600 while I wanted to call scandal damage 291 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,000 control or there were just a million 292 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,160 different things I I think about. But I 293 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,120 never can settle on a title until sort 294 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,480 of right before it's time to start 295 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,399 marketing the show. And I don't think it 296 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:24,880 matters. The title of your show is not 297 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,440 what matters. That's best left to the 298 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,760 marketing gods, honestly. And like I 299 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,440 say, there are things that I know I do 300 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,079 extremely well. That is telling story. 301 00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:35,839 Don't spend your time focused on what 302 00:11:35,839 --> 00:11:38,720 the title's going to be or 303 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,040 or I don't know like what music's going 304 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,200 to play or something. You just the story 305 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,640 you're telling is what needs to be 306 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,680 focused on. And I say that because when 307 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:49,839 it comes to things like character names, 308 00:11:49,839 --> 00:11:52,079 don't be focused on those either. Mainly 309 00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:54,000 because you have to get those cleared 310 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,000 through all these legal clearances and 311 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,360 you'll become very obsessed with 312 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,360 somebody having a certain name and then 313 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,760 you'll have to change that name. So, to 314 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,200 me, there's something great about just 315 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,560 sort of letting the chips fall where 316 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,440 they may, giving a character kind of a a 317 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,279 nice but interesting name that you can 318 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:11,279 deal with that's not something a name of 319 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:13,680 someone you know and hate or love, and 320 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:15,600 then waiting until legal clearances have 321 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,360 happened and then getting specific. Like 322 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,800 don't get hung up on those things and 323 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,160 let them keep you from writing or 324 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,880 creating. 1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,639 I am a firm believer in research when 2 00:00:14,639 --> 00:00:15,839 you're doing your pilot to tell an 3 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,720 authentic story. And it depends. I mean, 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,520 there are stories where doing a ton of 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,000 research is really necessary and there 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 are stories where doing a very small 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,080 amount of research is all that you need. 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,679 But it just depends on what kind of 9 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:31,760 story you're telling. You have to really 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,840 be clear on what kind of story you're 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,520 telling and be okay with your level of 12 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,840 authenticity. I'm a big fan of the good 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,480 oldfashioned library, which many people 14 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,480 are not, but I absolutely love it. Books 15 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:45,520 will tell you everything you need to 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,239 know about what a profession is like. 17 00:00:48,239 --> 00:00:49,600 One of the things I want to say about 18 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,200 doing research that I think is very 19 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,079 important, you know, read all the books. 20 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:56,960 Read every book. Find books. Read them. 21 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,239 Do not steal people's work. It's an 22 00:01:00,239 --> 00:01:01,680 unwitting thing that can sometimes 23 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,199 happen. You don't really even realize 24 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:05,519 that you're doing it. But really be 25 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:07,840 careful that when you're reading books 26 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,000 and doing your research that you didn't 27 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,119 find one book and take that one book and 28 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:14,880 use it as all of your source material 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,439 for something, you know, you really want 30 00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:19,759 to understand that you were looking for 31 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:22,159 how a job is done and not how someone 32 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:24,400 did their job. 33 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,880 It's a fine line, but I think it's 34 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,240 important because unless you're going to 35 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,799 buy their rights, you know, the way we 36 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:33,360 did with Judy Smith, you really want to 37 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:34,960 make sure that you're being respectful 38 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:36,720 of the fact that somebody else has an 39 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,200 experience that is their own. And you 40 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,400 know, the same way you wouldn't want 41 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,040 somebody to suddenly take your story and 42 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,720 make a show out of it and then tell you, 43 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,119 "Too bad. I kind of just was inspired." 44 00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:48,799 You want to make sure that you're being 45 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:50,240 respectful of everybody else's stories 46 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,479 as well. 47 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,880 I think researching a project is really 48 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,520 specific to what the project is. You 49 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,399 know, researching 50 00:02:04,399 --> 00:02:06,960 medicine, you know, surgery is very 51 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,119 different than researching, say what 52 00:02:09,119 --> 00:02:10,640 Judy Smith does, you know, the 53 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:13,120 inspiration for scandal. 54 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,520 Being a lawyer is very different than 55 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,080 being a shrink like the doctors were on 56 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,440 private practice. So sometimes it's just 57 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:22,959 about talking to somebody who does the 58 00:02:22,959 --> 00:02:25,120 job or who's lived the life, which is 59 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,520 really interesting. You know, on Grays, 60 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,680 I did everything from talk to actual 61 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,720 surgical residents. Um, I talked to 62 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,480 actual surgeons who performed certain 63 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,599 surgeries. I talked to patients about 64 00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:39,519 what their lives were like. There there 65 00:02:39,519 --> 00:02:41,360 are resources you can call up. There's a 66 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,800 media place for people who are doing 67 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,519 health stuff. You can call up the 68 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:46,959 television academy and ask a couple of 69 00:02:46,959 --> 00:02:48,400 questions and see where they'll send you 70 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,720 to. There are places that you can call. 71 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,959 And frankly, honestly, sometimes if you 72 00:02:52,959 --> 00:02:54,080 just picked up the phone and for 73 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,519 instance called a doctor's office and 74 00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:57,120 asked a bunch of questions, they'd 75 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,440 probably be happy to help. It's very 76 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,120 interesting how many people are happy to 77 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,400 help you when you say, "I'm writing a 78 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,599 television pilot." Oddly enough, just to 79 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:07,440 give you information on what the world 80 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,360 is like. 81 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,000 So, for something like Grays, I went 82 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,440 ahead and talked to residents. I found 83 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,959 out what her, you know, like the 84 00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:16,400 resident I spoke to the most, what her 85 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,879 life was like as a resident, the little 86 00:03:18,879 --> 00:03:21,360 details, um, how long they were at work, 87 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,400 what it felt like, what the, like the 88 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,159 suturing on a banana that I think you 89 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:28,080 see Christina Yang doing in the pilot. 90 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,360 That's something that she said they did 91 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,519 all the time. The idea that they would 92 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:33,120 go and watch surgeries and sit in the 93 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,480 gallery and talk about them like they 94 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,400 were a sporting event. Little details 95 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,480 like that were were gold to me because 96 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,480 that was really important. The idea that 97 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,000 you'd have to go outside and come back 98 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,400 in um just to get yourself some air, 99 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,080 which would keep you awake, was 100 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,080 important. All of those little details 101 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,560 kept things moving for me and made a 102 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,560 world that felt specific to being a 103 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,080 doctor. And I was really gratified to 104 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,480 hear from surgeons that they felt like 105 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,200 that felt really real. I mean, none of 106 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:00,400 them felt like they were in on call 107 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,159 rooms as much as ours were, but it felt 108 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:03,599 like there were aspects of it that 109 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:07,480 really reflected their world. 110 00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:13,120 I was really fortunate and I had worked 111 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,680 on the HBO movie Introducing Dorothy 112 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,120 Dandridge and I had done a ton of 113 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,440 research for that. What I learned in 114 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,320 doing that research was that the best 115 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,360 way to research something was to simply 116 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,400 listen. So if I could get someone on the 117 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,080 phone or I could sit down with somebody 118 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,120 and say, "Tell me about what you do." 119 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,840 And then just listen to them speak. 120 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:37,199 That's so much better than having 121 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:38,960 pointed questions where you already know 122 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,320 what you want the answer to be. Because 123 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,759 if you already know the answer, why are 124 00:04:43,759 --> 00:04:46,080 you asking the question? What's much 125 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,840 better is to have what I call like the 126 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,000 absorption phase where you just want to 127 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,520 hear everything they have to say and 128 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,680 absorb everything they have to say. Make 129 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,000 all your notes with no judgments or 130 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,160 ideas about what you're planning to do 131 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,160 already. You just want to hear the 132 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,720 information and take it in. And then 133 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,080 sort of that sort of fills you with 134 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,800 ideas, I think. It's it's always helpful 135 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,520 to go in with no ideas already in your 136 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,320 head. Let them fill you up with stuff. 137 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,639 Then you go away and then you hone that 138 00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:16,960 down into a series of very specific 139 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,360 questions. I think those questions can 140 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:20,880 then become something specific. And if 141 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,160 they can't answer your questions or 142 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:23,520 they're, you know, you got your one shot 143 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,080 with them, then you go to a different 144 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,080 source or then you go looking things up. 145 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,280 But the first time around, don't go in 146 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:32,720 thinking you already know what you want 147 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,720 to know because that's how you miss all 148 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,639 the good stuff. That's how you miss the 149 00:05:36,639 --> 00:05:38,720 unexpected pieces of information that 150 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,800 people don't usually get. You just let 151 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,240 people talk and tell you everything 152 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960 they've got and then, you know, take 153 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,039 that back with you before you start to 154 00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:50,440 get more specific. 155 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,320 I like to take notes. I like to take 156 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,880 handwritten notes or typed you know on 157 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,199 the computer notes. Some people I think 158 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:05,120 like to record things and they find that 159 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,280 very useful and I know for a lot of 160 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:08,560 people being able to go back to those 161 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,039 recordings works for them. For me I 162 00:06:11,039 --> 00:06:13,120 never ever have gone back to any 163 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,440 recording. So just for me that doesn't 164 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,759 work. Somehow the interpretation that 165 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:19,360 happens while I'm listening to somebody 166 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,479 talk is more powerful than going back to 167 00:06:22,479 --> 00:06:25,039 tape. So, I try to take notes in 168 00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:26,639 whatever form I'm taking them while 169 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:29,120 listening to someone talk. Mostly 170 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,039 because I think I'm forming story in my 171 00:06:31,039 --> 00:06:33,520 head as I'm listening to them talk. And 172 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,759 that's always it works for me really 173 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:37,520 well. You don't want to walk away with 174 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,880 nothing written down. Although 175 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,199 there have been times, you know, given 176 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,360 that it's Washington or given that it's, 177 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,520 you know, certain situations that you're 178 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,280 in, you can't stop, pull out a piece of 179 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:51,039 paper and start writing things down. So, 180 00:06:51,039 --> 00:06:52,479 there have been times when I've spent 181 00:06:52,479 --> 00:06:54,080 the whole time not being able to take 182 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,600 notes and just trying to remember 183 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,160 everything. Those have actually been 184 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,400 maybe some of the best times because 185 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,639 when you just are forced to do nothing 186 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:04,400 but listen, 187 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,680 you take in more and frankly what comes 188 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,199 out of it sometimes is much more 189 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:12,319 powerful and better for you. So, you 190 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:14,800 know, you should but then I always make 191 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,199 sure that I write down notes afterwards. 192 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:19,280 So, when you're doing these these 193 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:20,720 moments where you're doing these 194 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,080 interviews and you're absorbing whatever 195 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,000 it is they have to say for research, you 196 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,080 can record them, you can take notes, you 197 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,479 can type up notes. I always think 198 00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:30,000 sitting down afterwards, no matter what 199 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,160 you've done, to write down, you know, 200 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,479 your points of view sort of right after 201 00:07:34,479 --> 00:07:36,240 it's happened, your thoughts, your 202 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,400 ideas, whatever's come to you is a 203 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,280 really important thing to do. 204 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,280 When doing the research for Grace, I sat 205 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,240 with um the surgical resident. She gave 206 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,240 me a ton of information. I just absorbed 207 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,680 everything she had to tell me about what 208 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,639 her life was like. Then I went away and 209 00:07:56,639 --> 00:07:58,960 I sat down and I thought about what I 210 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,520 wanted my story to be. 211 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,560 That brought up a lot of questions. Um 212 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,199 how many hours did they work? What would 213 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:08,720 you do if you wanted to go on a date? 214 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,400 Like if you had been working that many 215 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,240 hours and you wanted to leave and go on 216 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,479 a date from from work, where did you get 217 00:08:14,479 --> 00:08:17,520 ready? If you slept there, where did you 218 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,599 keep your stuff? 219 00:08:19,599 --> 00:08:21,599 What happened to residents who were like 220 00:08:21,599 --> 00:08:22,720 I just asked things like, "What happened 221 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,720 to residents who were pregnant? Did a 222 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,000 pregnant resident work all the way 223 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,840 through?" Just all of the things that 224 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,840 just came up in my mind as I was talking 225 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,919 to her, but then also questions that 226 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:36,080 felt very specific to the story. If you 227 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,959 messed up as a surgeon, what happened? 228 00:08:38,959 --> 00:08:40,880 Did people make fun of each other? How 229 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,440 competitive was it? What did the world 230 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,000 feel like? Where did they all hang out? 231 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,760 How often did they get to sleep? Like 232 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,440 all of those little questions that end 233 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,120 up being 234 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,360 pieces of the world that you saw. That 235 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,360 idea that they all went and sat in the 236 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,519 tunnels and hung out on those gurnies 237 00:08:57,519 --> 00:08:59,600 really came from the fact that, you 238 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,519 know, I wanted them to have a space to 239 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:03,920 just be. But she was like, there's no 240 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,320 place you can sit down or hang out 241 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,360 that's not in front of patients really. 242 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,040 You know, you can go hang out in the 243 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,560 locker room, but then other people are 244 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:14,399 seeing you. You don't want to hang out 245 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:15,839 anywhere where your attendings can see 246 00:09:15,839 --> 00:09:16,800 you because you're going to get in 247 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,000 trouble. You know, there were lots of 248 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,360 little details like that. So I was like, 249 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,640 I'm going to make, you know, put them in 250 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,080 the basement and have this like weird 251 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,240 space that they're in that's underneath. 252 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,600 I visited a hospital and saw sort of 253 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,920 this sort of tunnneled area and thought 254 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,920 this is a perfect place to be. And you 255 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,360 watched all these doctors sort of moving 256 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,000 through that space there. There was 257 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,760 research like that that was important to 258 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,800 me. But when it came to the medicine, I 259 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,040 thought, well, the medicine is about the 260 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,959 charact, you know, is not about the 261 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:46,640 surgery as much as it is about how our 262 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,040 doctors are feeling about the surgeries. 263 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,360 So instead of writing, you know, 264 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,279 specific medical details and learning 265 00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:55,440 all of that stuff, I just there's a 266 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,120 thing we call on we call it on Grace, we 267 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,040 call it medical medical. On Scandal, we 268 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,160 call it political political. But on 269 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,240 Grace, we call it medical medical. And 270 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,560 instead of writing, you know, a whole 271 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:07,279 bunch of medical dialogue, we just write 272 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,360 medical medical. And you can you can see 273 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,440 it in the scripts like it'll say, you 274 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,160 know, Meredith will say, I need to 275 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,440 medical, medical, the medical. And 276 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:16,880 someone who else will go, why medical 277 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,040 the medical, hand me the medical. And 278 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,760 that happens because it's not about the 279 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,680 medicine as much as it is their learning 280 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,040 and their teaching and what's going on. 281 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,560 It's based in the characters and their 282 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,279 feelings and their their growth. And we 283 00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:31,600 fill the medicine in later. Sometimes a 284 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,959 lot of times we know what the surgeries 285 00:10:32,959 --> 00:10:34,399 are and we know what the medical's going 286 00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:36,800 to be in general, but we're not focused 287 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,880 on those specifics. We rely on the 288 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,440 surgeons and the the researchers that we 289 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,760 have to help us fill those in. I also 290 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,560 sat and talked about thought about what 291 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,079 my medical cases were going to be. You 292 00:10:48,079 --> 00:10:50,079 know, the idea that George Ali was going 293 00:10:50,079 --> 00:10:52,000 to perform a surgery all the way through 294 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,760 on his first day. That detail was was a 295 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,240 piece of truth that happens. you know, 296 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,680 you pick somebody, you make them your 297 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,839 guy, and then you sort of abuse them so 298 00:11:01,839 --> 00:11:04,320 that everybody else knew what was 299 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,240 coming. And that story and how that 300 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,160 worked was something that she told me 301 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,839 about. And I wanted to know more about 302 00:11:11,839 --> 00:11:14,160 it and how it all worked. And that was 303 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,480 really interesting to get those details. 304 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,079 And so then I had to do the research on 305 00:11:18,079 --> 00:11:19,600 how does one do an appendecttomy all the 306 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,279 way through. 307 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:22,959 That was one of the medicals that I 308 00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:25,680 learned really early on because how that 309 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:28,320 worked was crucial to how he was 310 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,760 humiliated. It was more about the 311 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,680 character story than it was about how 312 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:36,079 the surgery worked. Like what Burke was 313 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:39,040 saying to him had a lot to do with 314 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,839 George's downfall. Not as much as like 315 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:44,880 just doing a a surgery would be. And 316 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,160 then what was being set up in the 317 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,079 gallery was very important too. and the 318 00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:50,480 the notion of calling someone 007 and 319 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,320 the little the little catchphrases 320 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,000 people had for how they talked about 321 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,839 doctors, that kind of thing was stuff 322 00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:57,920 that I asked her. So getting those 323 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,279 details and getting them all written 324 00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:02,079 down was important. Once you have all 325 00:12:02,079 --> 00:12:03,760 that stuff and you have your script sort 326 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,320 of in front of you, what you discover is 327 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,959 as you're writing, there are 10,000 more 328 00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:10,880 questions that come up as you go that 329 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,000 you never thought of before. you know, 330 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000 how realistic is it that you know, you'd 331 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,480 you'd I don't know, have to do this much 332 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,079 on the first day? How realistic is it 333 00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:21,839 that you get this kind of a patient? Who 334 00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:23,200 would you be working with? What is your 335 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,200 residency like? All of these little 336 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,519 details that even came down to when do 337 00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:29,200 they get their badges? It was it was 338 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,279 very interesting. 339 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:33,680 And having all those details and getting 340 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,760 all that stuff just made the world feel 341 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,000 more authentic. 342 00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:45,120 In the first meeting with Judy Smith, 343 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,240 you know, it was supposed to be this 344 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,680 15-inute quick meet and greet and we 345 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,399 ended up talking for four hours. That 346 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:52,560 was really interesting because I don't 347 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,639 think I said much of anything at all. I 348 00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:57,040 think I spent most of my time listening. 349 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,200 Um, you know, she's done everything. So, 350 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,880 listening to somebody tell you about 351 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,279 their job, just the nature of their job. 352 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:09,680 And she really started with here's how 353 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,240 my job started. Here's how I got, you 354 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,440 know, I got started. Here are some of 355 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,440 the things that I've done in my work. 356 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,279 I'm not going to give you names, but I'm 357 00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:18,959 going to give you details of how these 358 00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:21,120 things worked. That was really all I 359 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,360 needed. So, I could just sit and listen 360 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,880 to what was going on. I didn't 361 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,200 necessarily have to ask questions. So, 362 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,600 it was a great sort of absorption time. 363 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,839 And then from that, I think I probably 364 00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:35,440 took a month or two to really think 365 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,000 about what she'd said and what we'd 366 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,720 talked about. And I went and I looked up 367 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,760 articles about her and tried to Google 368 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,480 her. And my favorite thing about that 369 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,120 was is you couldn't Google her. And I 370 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,360 couldn't find a single picture of her 371 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,160 that was anything more than maybe one or 372 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,760 two pictures of her sort of pushing 373 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,240 cameras away for somebody else or a 374 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,680 picture of her that was in just like a 375 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,600 piece of her sliced off on the side of 376 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,079 somebody's frame, which I loved because 377 00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:05,760 that told me everything I needed to know 378 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,120 in a lot of ways. That was a ton of 379 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,199 research for me. And then once I had 380 00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:12,079 that research, then I began compiling 381 00:14:12,079 --> 00:14:14,000 lists of questions for her. What would 382 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,199 you do if this happened? What would you 383 00:14:15,199 --> 00:14:16,639 do if this happened in this situation? 384 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:19,279 What happens? how do you solve this kind 385 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:22,000 of problem? And she would give me long 386 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,079 lists of answers. I would call her and 387 00:14:24,079 --> 00:14:25,440 say, "What kind of person do you call 388 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,880 for this?" Or, "Could you actually, you 389 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,880 know, technically dispose of a body?" 390 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,480 And she'd be like, "No, but here's what 391 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,920 I think you could possibly do." She 392 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,639 would help us come up with the ways and 393 00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:38,800 the reasons we could make the story 394 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,839 happen. And that was helpful. 395 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,959 I feel like there's always a time when 396 00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:50,639 you are researching a project and 397 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:51,760 thinking about a project and it's 398 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,320 percolating in your head when you sort 399 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,600 of can't stand it anymore because you've 400 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,120 the research you're doing and the 401 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,040 creative thinking you're doing have 402 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,720 melded enough that you're ready to tell 403 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,480 a story. 404 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,519 For me, there's always sort of a a click 405 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:12,399 in my brain when it's really clear that 406 00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:15,360 I know what my story is and I'm ready to 407 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,040 write. There's no rule about what that 408 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,360 is. There's no moment that I can tell 409 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,199 you, you know, like you have to have 410 00:15:23,199 --> 00:15:25,839 these 10 things. It just happens when 411 00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:27,360 you feel like you know enough about your 412 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,920 characters to start writing them down. 413 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,760 For me, a lot of times that's when I 414 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,680 start hearing dialogue. When I'm able to 415 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,920 start imagining dialogue in my head or 416 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,199 I'm able to start imagining full scenes. 417 00:15:39,199 --> 00:15:41,680 Um, I don't know if you'll begin to 418 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,440 imagine full scenes and that'll be what 419 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,680 makes you want to write or if dialogue 420 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,519 will be the thing for you, but there 421 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:49,519 comes a moment when you realize if I 422 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:51,759 don't write this down, I'm going to lose 423 00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:53,360 it or I'm going to get bored or I'm 424 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,920 going to lose my mind or I can't take it 425 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,240 anymore. So that's when you should start 426 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,639 to write. And the thing to remember is 427 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:02,399 that you still have the right to go back 428 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:05,199 and do more research. Nothing has to be 429 00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:07,120 perfect. I think a lot of people are 430 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,120 stopped by the idea of perfection. Like 431 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,360 I must know this or I must know that. 432 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,600 Nothing has to be perfect. Just frankly 433 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,920 just 1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,519 I hope what people find in the 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:11,920 characters that I write is that they 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,799 feel truthful, that the vulnerability 4 00:00:14,799 --> 00:00:17,600 that they display feels like honest 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,680 vulnerability, like it doesn't feel 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,279 mannered and it doesn't feel fake, and 7 00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:22,640 that they say the things that people 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,000 seem to be afraid to say in public, so 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,279 that you actually feel like you're 10 00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:29,039 watching the private lives of actual 11 00:00:29,039 --> 00:00:30,640 people. 12 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,760 That's the goal for me anyway. Um to 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,520 have characters who seem brave enough to 14 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,800 live their lives in front of you so that 15 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,399 you think you're getting a peak inside 16 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,040 someone's personal life. Otherwise, 17 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,079 you're just watching a commercial 18 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:48,000 almost. Not that there's anything wrong 19 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,360 with commercials. We all love them. But 20 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,280 you know what I mean. You want to really 21 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,640 feel like you're getting an intimate 22 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,920 look at someone's personal story. People 23 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,320 always ask the question, you know, how 24 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,399 do you write such strong, smart women, 25 00:01:00,399 --> 00:01:02,559 which I think is 26 00:01:02,559 --> 00:01:04,720 kind of an amazing question, mainly 27 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,080 because the alternative is weak, stupid 28 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,720 women, and I don't know any of those. 29 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,479 So, 30 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:14,000 I don't know. I don't even understand 31 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,400 why that question is a question, but I 32 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,799 suppose it's a question because people 33 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:21,680 have seen a lot of weak, stupid women on 34 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,960 television, which is disturbing. Don't 35 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:26,080 be one of those people who's writing 36 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,720 weak, stupid women, please. So that 37 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,680 strong, smart women stops being th those 38 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,600 adjectives stop being used and it just 39 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,799 becomes women. 40 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:40,200 That would be helpful. 41 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:46,960 I think when I'm beginning the character 42 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:49,759 development process, usually I'm 43 00:01:49,759 --> 00:01:52,799 thinking about who my character is in 44 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:55,360 terms of, you know, first it's the real 45 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,280 ba really basic things. How old are 46 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,960 they? What do they do? Um, where do they 47 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,600 live? What's their income level? What's 48 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,079 their education level? What kind of 49 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:08,640 family situation are they in? And did 50 00:02:08,640 --> 00:02:12,800 they come from? Um, and then it becomes 51 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,720 things a little bit more interesting 52 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,400 like 53 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,160 if they went to therapy, what would be 54 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,000 found? Do you know what I mean? Like 55 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,920 what's their paos? 56 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:25,280 And and also just what don't they know 57 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,040 about themselves? What what do they 58 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,200 need? What do they want? Um, who are 59 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,680 their friends? You know, I try to fill 60 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,560 up their lives in a way. There's a 61 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,280 little bit of I don't know. People 62 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,800 probably didn't do this as much as I 63 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,720 did, but I spent a lot of time playing 64 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,959 imaginary friends when I was little. I 65 00:02:44,959 --> 00:02:46,640 played with the cans in my pantry and I 66 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:47,680 made them little people in little 67 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,680 kingdoms. I played with the dolls and 68 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:50,959 you know my Barbie dolls and they all 69 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:54,480 had very full rich lives. Um it's a 70 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,879 little bit like that. like take somebody 71 00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:59,840 and fill up their world because 72 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,519 otherwise you just have these sort of 73 00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:03,280 stick figures that you're moving around 74 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,680 from plot point to plot point and that's 75 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,519 useless and very uninteresting for 76 00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:11,040 people to watch. You really want 77 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,000 your characters to have to feel human to 78 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,480 really feel actually human for people to 79 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,640 be so invested in them that they forget 80 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,959 that they're not real. You know, I find 81 00:03:20,959 --> 00:03:23,200 it to be the biggest compliment in the 82 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,640 world when I get letters that say, "I 83 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:28,879 can't believe you killed soand so." And 84 00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:31,040 I think, "Well, they're not dead." You 85 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,200 know, it's a character. But it is a 86 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,720 lovely compliment because they have 87 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,519 gotten so invested in the characters and 88 00:03:37,519 --> 00:03:39,599 what's happening to them that it means 89 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:41,599 something. Think about when you're 90 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:44,640 writing your characters, not just, you 91 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,319 know, how could I make them seem smart 92 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:47,840 and funny, but how could I make them 93 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,480 seem smart and funny in original ways? 94 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,879 What about them feels quirky? Not 95 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:54,159 everybody could have been the most 96 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:56,159 popular person in school. Not everybody 97 00:03:56,159 --> 00:03:57,760 could have been the most beautiful. Not 98 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,840 everybody was prom king. Not everybody 99 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,319 was, you know, the best athlete. What 100 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:04,400 about them was fascinating. And nobody 101 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,400 was geeky in the same ways. Like it's so 102 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,360 interesting like when you're watching 103 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,120 television, my pet peeve is like 104 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,480 everybody was on the debate team when 105 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,720 they were a nerd. No, they weren't. Find 106 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,080 something really interesting and 107 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,239 specific for your characters. The more 108 00:04:16,239 --> 00:04:17,840 specific you are with your characters, 109 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:20,639 the more defined they become and the 110 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:24,680 more three-dimensional they become. 111 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,840 You know what's interesting is for some 112 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,080 characters, I really work to know every 113 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,199 single thing that there is to know about 114 00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:35,120 them. I try to have a big backstory. I 115 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,320 try to really understand them for, you 116 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,680 know, for the characters on grays and 117 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,040 for the characters on Private Practice, 118 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,560 I really wanted to know so much stuff 119 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,720 about them, so many details. For 120 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Scandal, I let them be as blank a slate 121 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,479 as I could, mainly because it fit the 122 00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:52,880 show we were talking about. these people 123 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,680 were cold and neutral and they all had 124 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,840 secrets that they were hiding and I 125 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:01,199 didn't want to know too much because 126 00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:03,840 I wanted to sort of find out as we were 127 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:06,000 going along what was going on with them 128 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,600 as well. So, I had no idea, you know, 129 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,880 that Abby had a violent ex-husband, and 130 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,680 I had no idea about Huck and his family, 131 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,080 and I had no idea about Quinn's past or 132 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,840 Cyrus's husband or any of it until we 133 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,000 came to it in the story. And it worked 134 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,000 for me because the unfolding of that was 135 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,400 you getting to know these people and we 136 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,520 were getting to know them at the same 137 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,440 time. And what was wonderful is that you 138 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,800 have a cast that was very willing to 139 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,680 leap, but layering and unlayering those 140 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,720 things and unfolding them for people. 141 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,039 It it was a great experiment for me 142 00:05:43,039 --> 00:05:44,479 because I wasn't sure it was going to 143 00:05:44,479 --> 00:05:46,320 work to to have characters that were 144 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,280 such blank slates and it it worked 145 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,280 perfectly. So sometimes you need to know 146 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:52,479 everything and sometimes you need to 147 00:05:52,479 --> 00:05:55,759 know nothing. I think it's helpful to 148 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:58,560 give yourself enough detail to be able 149 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,639 to really 150 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:02,080 know what a character would do in any 151 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,000 given situation, but not necessarily you 152 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,199 don't necessarily have to know their 153 00:06:07,199 --> 00:06:09,360 entire past. The same way you can have a 154 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,600 really great friend and you can know 155 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,960 enough about them to know how they're 156 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,720 going to feel about something or how 157 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,160 they're going to react to something or 158 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,600 what they're going to want to do next, 159 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:18,800 but you don't necessarily know 160 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,000 everything that happened to them in 161 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,759 their childhood or you don't have to 162 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:23,600 know who their last girlfriend was and 163 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,960 what happened in that relationship or 164 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,199 their last husband. You just have to 165 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:31,639 know enough about them to know them. 166 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:36,960 Part of what keeps you from making 167 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,600 clichéed characters, and this I get 168 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,759 directly from Gina Davis, who I think is 169 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:43,680 super interesting and was on Grays for a 170 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,600 while, is just take half the characters 171 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,319 that you made men and make them women. 172 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:49,840 Take half the characters that you were 173 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,120 going to cast as one color and cast them 174 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,840 differently. You know, just think 175 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:57,600 differently for yourself and that might 176 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,120 help free you up a little bit when 177 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,080 you're writing in your head. It helps me 178 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,080 all the time. You know, somebody will 179 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,560 say, "Why are all the cops guys?" And 180 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,599 I'll think, "I hadn't thought about 181 00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:10,000 that. That's a really great point. Look, 182 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,919 I hadn't I hadn't thought about all 183 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:12,960 these guy people who are running around 184 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,880 protecting everybody as being guys." 185 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,039 Good point. Let's rethink. And I think 186 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:18,960 it's important for people to rethink 187 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,880 because what people see on television 188 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,960 changes, you know, what they think about 189 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,479 themselves. So, I always say if you are 190 00:07:26,479 --> 00:07:28,000 a 191 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,120 a man and you're writing a woman and 192 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,360 she's like a pretty woman, imagine what 193 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,280 that character would be like doing all 194 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,240 the same things but she were a guy. 195 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:39,759 Like, how would that change the 196 00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:43,039 character? Would she become smarter, 197 00:07:43,039 --> 00:07:45,039 stronger, more courageous, less 198 00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:47,120 interested in boys? you know, like think 199 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,759 about those things because that sort of 200 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:51,199 helps you put yourself in that 201 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:52,639 character's shoes if you're having a 202 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:54,879 hard time. I think it's an exercise that 203 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:57,120 I have made 204 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,960 people do in my writer room from time to 205 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,240 time. You know, we've had we've had 206 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,479 moments where that's been a thing. And I 207 00:08:04,479 --> 00:08:06,000 and I don't find it to be a conscious 208 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,599 thing. Like, it's not conscious sexism 209 00:08:07,599 --> 00:08:09,520 and people are trying to take a female 210 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,479 character and make her um less, you 211 00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:14,160 know, smart or less strong or less 212 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,560 interesting. It just comes from the 213 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,000 you're not used to writing from somebody 214 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,160 else's perspective. And if you're not 215 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,440 used to writing from someone else's 216 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,720 perspective, it becomes hard to 217 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,000 necessarily see that person um the way 218 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,919 that you maybe wanted to or you maybe 219 00:08:27,919 --> 00:08:29,759 thought you were supposed to. The thing 220 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:31,280 that I think is most important is to 221 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,000 feel compassion for your character. To 222 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,080 feel like if I were standing in that 223 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,479 character's shoes, how would I feel? 224 00:08:38,479 --> 00:08:40,640 What would I do? What would it be like? 225 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,240 And I think that's important because I 226 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,399 don't think people do it often enough, 227 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,720 especially with characters that are 228 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,560 different from you. It's so easy to go, 229 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:51,600 well, that person's a villain or that's 230 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,720 the pretty girl or that's, you know, the 231 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,360 the village idiot or whatever and not 232 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,920 actually feel compassion for those 233 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:01,120 people and try to make them 234 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,440 three-dimensional. You know, the biggest 235 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,200 fights I've ever had in my writer room 236 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,800 are when somebody says to me, "Well, 237 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,600 Cyrus is just horrible," or "Yus is, you 238 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,760 know, Cyrus is dirty. He's a terrible 239 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,000 person. And I just can't abide that 240 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,040 because to me, Cyrus is a patriot. You 241 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,040 know, someone will say, you know, Papa 242 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,040 Pope is the worst. And I'm like, Papa 243 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,880 Pope is a loving father who is doing 244 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,240 everything he can to take care of his 245 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,040 daughter. Period. In his mind, that's 246 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,120 where he comes from. Yes, he kills 247 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,040 people, but he does it for the right 248 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,360 reasons as far as he's concerned. And if 249 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,959 you look at it from his perspective and 250 00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:36,720 feel compassion for where he is 251 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,760 standing, you know, for me, he's written 252 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,160 from a very loving place. And that makes 253 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,160 him more three-dimensional than if we 254 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,920 just made him sort of this villainous 255 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,000 man who came in to destroy his 256 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,000 daughter's life. He's not trying to 257 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,440 destroy her life. He's trying to save 258 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,080 her. Cyrus is not trying to be evil. 259 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,279 Cyrus is just trying to be recognized. 260 00:09:57,279 --> 00:09:58,720 And so you have to really look at 261 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,399 characters like that or else they just 262 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:02,560 become 263 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,320 stereotypical or one-dimensional or 264 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,240 cliched and they're not interesting. 265 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,760 Nobody wants to watch that. It's it's 266 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,160 fascinating how often something that 267 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,200 could be really really interesting gets 268 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,640 ruined by someone's inability to have 269 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,279 compassion for their own character. 270 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:23,920 So for me, that's one of the biggest 271 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,920 qualities 272 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,000 when I'm writing character descriptions. 273 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,320 I try to write them to be about the 274 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,480 world of the character. They have 275 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,760 nothing to do with how the character 276 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,920 looks. And the reason why my character 277 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,279 descriptions have nothing to do with how 278 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:44,959 the character looks is how can you 279 00:10:44,959 --> 00:10:47,920 possibly know how the character looks? I 280 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,079 mean, I sometimes write things like, um, 281 00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:54,160 he makes you want to lick him. Like, I 282 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,839 think I wrote that as the character 283 00:10:55,839 --> 00:10:59,120 description for Denny or one of the 284 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,480 characters that we wrote. And I thought 285 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,000 that was a great description to say that 286 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,839 someone was attractive and handsome, but 287 00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:05,920 I never said he was handsome. I He had a 288 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,320 quality that made you want to lick him. 289 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,560 Whatever that was, I had no idea. So, we 290 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,160 looked for an actor and we found 291 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,600 somebody, but that was one of many 292 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,160 pieces of what we said. I never like to 293 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,920 say someone's beautiful or someone's 294 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,079 tall. You know, unless the tall has to 295 00:11:22,079 --> 00:11:23,440 do with the medical disorder we're going 296 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,079 to give them, there's really no point. 297 00:11:26,079 --> 00:11:28,800 It's very important to sort of let an 298 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,360 actor show up and define what the 299 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,360 character looks like for you. And I 300 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,320 learned that on the Pilot of Grays. You 301 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,880 know, a lot of different people read for 302 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,800 the part of Dr. Bailey, who I had 303 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,040 described as a short, tiny, adorable 304 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,480 blonde woman with curly hair. Um, 305 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,000 including some short, tiny, adorable 306 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 blonde women with curly hair. And you 307 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,240 know, Sandra O was one of the people and 308 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,519 she was amazing. She was a very 309 00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:55,040 interesting Dr. Bailey. Although the 310 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,240 minute I saw her as Dr. Bailey, I was 311 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,720 like, she's Christina. And Shandra read 312 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,880 for that part and all kinds of other 313 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,399 women. But the minute you saw Shandra 314 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:04,560 Wilson, you went, "That's Dr. Bailey." 315 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:06,720 And that was my first lesson in never 316 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,040 ever defining a character by how they 317 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,240 looked because you can't possibly always 318 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,720 be right. And so finding people and just 319 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,720 sort of going that's who it is. That's 320 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,920 who it is makes it really interesting. 321 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:30,720 What's interesting about taking a real 322 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,000 life person and using her as the 323 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:36,000 inspiration for for Olivia Pope was in 324 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,519 the end what I decided was the only 325 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:39,920 thing I could keep was the job. You 326 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,360 know, you really can't take a real life 327 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,959 person's life and turn it into a show. 328 00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:45,200 It's too personal. So, in the end, I 329 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,160 just kept the work. So, frankly, I was 330 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,440 imagining every aspect of Olivia Pope's 331 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,240 life because there was nothing left. Um, 332 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,320 there couldn't be anything left of Judy, 333 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,200 mainly because it was just it was going 334 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,760 to be too juicy, frankly, to take 335 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,040 someone's personal life and put it on 336 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,000 screen that way if it's going to be 337 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,480 these intimate moments lived out loud. 338 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,920 What was great about it was that, you 339 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,279 know, it allowed me to build from 340 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:11,760 scratch a character who had this same 341 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,160 kind of job and lived in this kind of 342 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:15,680 way. 343 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:19,920 And that was a lot of fun. It's never 344 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,279 clear to me how I'm going to come up 345 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:26,680 with a character's name. It never really 346 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,399 just happens in some way, but it also is 347 00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:33,680 never this very mannered thing. What I 348 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,959 love is that I pick great names because 349 00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:39,200 they always end up being popular baby 350 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,320 names like Addison, and that's lovely, 351 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,279 but then it makes it harder later. I do 352 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:46,880 know that I have given up several of my 353 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,720 favorite baby names to characters, and 354 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,040 that I can't use them. Um, and Olivia 355 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,480 was one of them. Olivia was one of those 356 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,079 names that I thought was just a great 357 00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:58,240 name. Um, and it felt like I always like 358 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,680 to pick a name that has a nickname to 359 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:01,920 it, something that you could sort of 360 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,560 shorten and make easy, but something 361 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,079 that also had a formality to it. and 362 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:08,800 Olivia felt like something that a 363 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,320 pretentious parent would call their 364 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,720 child, but also, you know, somebody who 365 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,240 has like higher aspirations for their 366 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,600 child. I don't mean pretentious, but 367 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,120 somebody who has a higher aspiration for 368 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,199 their child would name their child, but 369 00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:21,920 also you're allowed to have like cute 370 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,000 nicknames like Livy or you could just 371 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,440 call them Liv if you're just close 372 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,320 friends. It gave her different people to 373 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,800 be in my head perhaps. And I wasn't sure 374 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,000 if we were going to use any of those 375 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,880 nicknames, but I liked them. And Pope 376 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,720 was short and sweet and I don't know, it 377 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,079 felt very powerful somehow to me. I knew 378 00:14:42,079 --> 00:14:45,040 almost nothing about Olivia's backstory. 379 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,680 I think I probably knew that 380 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,519 she had been in an affair with the 381 00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:54,399 president. Did I? I didn't. I think I 382 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:55,600 knew that she'd been in an affair with 383 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,360 the president. I don't think I knew a 384 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,120 single detail about that affair. I don't 385 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,040 think I knew when it happened. I don't 386 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,279 think I knew how long it had gone on. I 387 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:04,800 don't think I knew much of anything 388 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,120 really other than that she'd had an 389 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,279 affair, that she was out of it, and that 390 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,040 she was trying to build a life for 391 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,120 herself. That was it. And that was kind 392 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,680 of a relief because it allowed for this 393 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,279 blank slate and a person who was trying 394 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:21,839 to live life as a blank slate. And you 395 00:15:21,839 --> 00:15:23,519 had this character Quinn who kept trying 396 00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:25,600 to find out more and is Olivia a good 397 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,279 person? Is she not a good person? What's 398 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:30,720 she really like? That made for an 399 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,639 interesting journey because we weren't 400 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:35,920 sure as well. When we began the show, 401 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,600 her character really sort of, you know, 402 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,199 thinks that she's a person who wants to 403 00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:43,839 uncover the truth, who wants to stand at 404 00:15:43,839 --> 00:15:46,320 the heart of being a good guy. You know, 405 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:47,920 she's she wears the white hat. That's 406 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,000 sort of what she spends her time saying, 407 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,320 and she feels very strongly about it. 408 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,720 And the reality of the situation is is 409 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,720 what she need and you know, she wants to 410 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,399 help people with their scandals and fix 411 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:04,800 people's problems. What she needs is 412 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,040 a way to fix her own problems in a lot 413 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,519 of ways. And I think her her greatest 414 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:14,399 fear is that she's going to be exposed. 415 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:16,800 It's hard for me to talk about or 416 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,839 quantify how much my original Olivia 417 00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:21,759 Pope changed when she became Carrie 418 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:25,759 Washington's Olivia Pope. mainly because 419 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:28,639 I can't even remember what that was 420 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:32,480 before. It's been so 421 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,160 she it's so much a part of who it is 422 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,040 now. Carrie being Olivia is is is just 423 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,720 the way it is. I do remember that she 424 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,519 was 425 00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:46,000 probably softer 426 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,959 in a lot of ways. I remember that I had 427 00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:51,600 a whole thing about, you know, Carrie is 428 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,519 very very very um she's very attractive 429 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,120 and not in a bad way. She's just a 430 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,720 beautiful person, a beautiful woman. And 431 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,000 I remember thinking she's too 432 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,440 attractive. I wanted her to to be less 433 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,079 overtly pretty because I thought maybe 434 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,039 that might make her Washington life 435 00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:11,199 harder. like there might be something 436 00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:12,559 about that that might make her 437 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:16,640 Washington life more difficult um if she 438 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,319 were 439 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:19,919 attractive or if she you know like if 440 00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:21,839 you look one way or you look another and 441 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,000 I thought that might be interesting but 442 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,079 then there was something about Carrie 443 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,559 herself when she came in and the edge 444 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,720 with which she played the character that 445 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,120 gave that character 446 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,559 uh a toughness that I thought surpassed 447 00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:38,080 anything I had imagined for the 448 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,280 character at all. and a chip on her 449 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,640 shoulder that came from people expecting 450 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,080 something of her because of the way she 451 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,240 looked, which I thought was really a 452 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,760 really interesting way to play Olivia 453 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,240 Pope. She, you know, she played her as 454 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,360 if she was tired of being or used to 455 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,960 being, you know, having assumptions 456 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,880 being made about her. And it's very much 457 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,400 the way she plays the character and not 458 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,640 carry at all. It was like a I watched a 459 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,320 transformation happen which was just 460 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,640 astounding. And so it was really 1 00:00:12,559 --> 00:00:14,880 When I'm developing an ensemble of 2 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,080 characters, I don't necessarily think 3 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:19,600 this character has to be like this or 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,760 this character has to be like this. It's 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,199 a little bit like putting together a 6 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:25,760 band. you know, you want everybody to 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,560 sort of harmonize well together and not 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:29,679 in the sense that everybody has to get 9 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:32,559 along, but that there has to be a tune 10 00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:35,520 going on there that's interesting. So, 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,399 you know, if we think about Scandal, you 12 00:00:38,399 --> 00:00:40,960 have, you know, Olivia who is sort of 13 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,480 your lead singer and she works really 14 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,640 well, but then you have to have, you 15 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,520 know, Huck who's odd but wise and I 16 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,039 always call him her, you know, attack 17 00:00:49,039 --> 00:00:51,120 dog, but he's odd but wise. He really 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,399 does provide all kinds of strange 19 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:55,360 wisdom. You have Abby who is loyal, 20 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,079 especially in the pilot, loyal and quiet 21 00:00:58,079 --> 00:01:01,359 and and sort of there. Harrison who's 22 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:03,520 who's the smart one who's sort of saying 23 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,199 everything fast and sort of leaning into 24 00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:07,360 everything. Quinn who's new. You know, 25 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,119 you have everybody sort of working in 26 00:01:11,119 --> 00:01:12,880 concert with one another so that you can 27 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,400 sort of see who they are. And when you 28 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,080 put them all together, they form a very 29 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,159 nice group of people. I think when 30 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:19,360 you're forming an ensemble, it's 31 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,960 important to have somebody in that 32 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:25,759 ensemble who is the voice of 33 00:01:25,759 --> 00:01:27,520 I don't want to just say dissent for the 34 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,439 main character, but you need somebody 35 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:30,960 for the main character to both be able 36 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,240 to talk to and somebody for who sort of 37 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,280 make sure the main character knows 38 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,040 what they're doing wrong. And that 39 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,240 doesn't necessarily have to be the same 40 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,560 person, but you do need those two people 41 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,720 in that world. You also need the person 42 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,640 who's going to make sure that we know 43 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,720 what is right and what is wrong in the 44 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,560 world. Um on grays that person is the 45 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,360 chief. Anything the chief says you 46 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,200 believe without question. It's very 47 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,520 interesting. He can say the sky has 48 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,200 turned purple and everybody's like oh 49 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,360 yeah the sky is purple. But if Alex said 50 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,759 it you'd be like I think he's lying. 51 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:09,039 It's very interesting. You have um the 52 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,120 sort of moral compass people who you 53 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,879 know Bailey Dr. Dr. Bailey is the person 54 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:14,160 who can sort of fight with Meredith and 55 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:15,040 tell her what you think she's doing 56 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,680 right or doing wrong. Um, Alex is the 57 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,520 person that Meredith speaks to and she 58 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,440 tells her secrets to. So, you have to 59 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,720 have those people or else it doesn't 60 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,400 necessarily lay out. And in a lot of 61 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,040 shows, it's very, you know, looks very 62 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,200 different. It can be, you know, like 63 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,560 kind of a total stranger that somebody 64 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,120 talks to. It can be their, you know, 65 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,360 kidnapper. It can be their somebody in 66 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,360 prison with them. It's always a very 67 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,040 different look. But you need those 68 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,599 people or else you're not hearing what's 69 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:44,879 going on for real. It's just somebody 70 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:48,280 talking to themselves. 71 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,680 It's really interesting when you watch 72 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,160 some shows and you realize that for a 73 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,840 lot of characters, things happen around 74 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,480 them, but they don't happen to things. 75 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,080 Try to make sure your characters are 76 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,080 happening to things. They are the ones 77 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,840 making things happen. For better or for 78 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,360 worse, they could be destroying the 79 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,879 world around them accidentally or on 80 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:10,720 purpose. But if they're the ones 81 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,239 happening to things and making things 82 00:03:12,239 --> 00:03:14,560 happen, then at the very least they're 83 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,120 active in their worlds. When I'm in a 84 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,120 series, I feel very protective of my 85 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,920 characters. You know, I'll be reading a 86 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,080 script or going through or listening to 87 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,720 a pitch and thinking, "Well, that's not 88 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,800 fair. My character is just sitting there 89 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,680 on the sidelines and and we all know 90 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,440 that she's much smarter than that or 91 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,040 she's stronger than that or she's 92 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,920 supposed to be growing." whatever it is, 93 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,879 I feel defensive for them and protective 94 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:43,200 of them because they're 95 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,959 they're my babies and you want them to 96 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:47,040 sort of get their due. And I feel that 97 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,840 for all of them and I I truly I mean 98 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,280 when I say the worst fights we've had 99 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,200 are the ones in which people insult, you 100 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,920 know, Cyrus or Papa Pope, that's true 101 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,599 because I feel very protective of those 102 00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,400 characters. You really have to be paying 103 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,239 attention to who your characters are. 104 00:04:02,239 --> 00:04:03,680 You have to, when I say you have to have 105 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,120 compassion for them, you have to care 106 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,360 about your characters enough to want to 107 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,360 make sure that they're sort of doing 108 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,799 okay. Yes, it's a little much to spend 109 00:04:12,799 --> 00:04:14,159 that much time thinking about your 110 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:15,840 characters, but you do have to pay 111 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,519 attention to how they're progressing in 112 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,840 the world and to not um sort of look 113 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:23,919 away and then look back and discover 114 00:04:23,919 --> 00:04:25,280 that they haven't been doing anything 115 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:27,360 for five episodes except sort of 116 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,919 standing on the sidelines. 117 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,720 I think it's important to be open to the 118 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,000 possibilities of where your character 119 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,560 can go and what your character can do. 120 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,360 Uh, a character like Quinn went from 121 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,120 being the most innocent girl in the 122 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,280 world to being a much darker character 123 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:49,840 with a much darker um life and a much 124 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,240 darker image in terms of what she could 125 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,400 do. And if you're going to let your 126 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,400 character evolve, one of the things that 127 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,680 you really need to think about is how to 128 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,600 do it naturally. You can do it in an 129 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,120 episode and it can feel really natural 130 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,639 or you can do it in a season and it can 131 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:04,160 feel really natural. But you have to 132 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,240 figure out how to make sure that the 133 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,520 moments that your character is 134 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,840 experiencing feel realistic. You know, 135 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:14,080 jumping through time or even just having 136 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,080 something happen over the course of one 137 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,199 episode really can be beautiful. I mean, 138 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:20,720 you can do it perfectly. You can have a 139 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,960 pilot in which somebody evolves, but it 140 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,039 has to feel natural and you have to have 141 00:05:25,039 --> 00:05:27,039 it be based in their character and not 142 00:05:27,039 --> 00:05:30,960 just for story sake. Melly Grant's a 143 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,320 great example, mainly because in the 144 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,919 pilot, Melly Grant had, I think, two 145 00:05:33,919 --> 00:05:38,320 lines of dialogue. And I probably had 146 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,880 plans for her to come back maybe once or 147 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,680 twice. There were no real plans for that 148 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,759 actress. And I remember telling my 149 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:47,280 casting director, "We need to get 150 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,280 somebody who can act just in case, but I 151 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,199 don't know. Like, it might be a bigger 152 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:54,720 part, maybe not, maybe a scene or two." 153 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,960 And what happened was is that every time 154 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,320 we used her, the actress, she became 155 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,080 more interesting. And the more I thought 156 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,000 about what that role would be, how it 157 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,600 would be to be first lady in a world in 158 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,120 which you knew your husband was this 159 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,039 person and how it would be to be around 160 00:06:11,039 --> 00:06:12,800 Olivia Pope and did she know and did she 161 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,720 she just became more interesting. So 162 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,000 it's very fascinating to watch how that 163 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,520 role has gone from being a tiny role to 164 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,199 being a gigantic part of the show mainly 165 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:25,600 because of how it was inhabited by that 166 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,560 actor. But also, you know, once you 167 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,080 start to think about the possibilities 168 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,319 that a character can bring, you have to 169 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:34,880 really leave yourself open. You know, 170 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,720 the stories that get told are the 171 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,080 stories that get told, and you have to 172 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,840 be willing to let the stories unfold 173 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,840 with that character. You can't say to 174 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,120 yourself, "Well, I was only going to do 175 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,280 two lines if that's where your story is 176 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,120 taking you." It allowed for more 177 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,039 possibilities for Olivia, for me, for 178 00:06:49,039 --> 00:06:51,039 storytelling. And that's where the most 179 00:06:51,039 --> 00:06:53,919 conflict lay in terms of story for the 180 00:06:53,919 --> 00:06:56,160 characters. I mean, where was Olivia 181 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,160 going to find more conflict than with 182 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,000 the wife of the man she'd been having an 183 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,400 affair with? Also, what was amazing 184 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,319 about creating that relationship between 185 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:06,880 Olivia and Melly and those characters 186 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,639 and watching that character development 187 00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:10,479 was watching these two women go from 188 00:07:10,479 --> 00:07:13,280 being women who barely knew each other 189 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,120 um and had preconceived notions of one 190 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,280 another and clearly Olivia is a person 191 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,639 who felt guilty and Melly is a person 192 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:20,880 who hated her. watching them come 193 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,520 together and become 194 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,759 very good friends, very close friends, 195 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:32,000 almost sisters in a way, um, bonded by 196 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,520 being suffocated by this very needy man, 197 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,520 which is what they've come to realize. 198 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,240 And there's a great moment when Olivia 199 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,800 says, you know, Melly did the other half 200 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,039 of this relationship. I never had to do 201 00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:46,560 that. That's what she's basically saying 202 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,240 to him when she breaks up with him. and 203 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,160 she's realizing that Melly did a lot of 204 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,919 heavy lifting and that Fitz was he was a 205 00:07:53,919 --> 00:07:56,960 lot of work and it's a very interesting 206 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,199 dynamic that I don't think I'd ever 207 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:03,039 really encountered before on screen and 208 00:08:03,039 --> 00:08:05,759 I I had a ball with it because it was a 209 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:07,440 great way of letting those characters 210 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,120 develop and evolve and not just be two 211 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,120 women catfighting over a guy. They 212 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:14,479 became two women struggling for their 213 00:08:14,479 --> 00:08:20,280 own identities in spite of this man. 214 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:25,759 You know, the fact that all of the 215 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:27,599 women, not all of the women, the fact 216 00:08:27,599 --> 00:08:31,840 that many of these women have their 217 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,519 liquor preferences and Fitz loves a 218 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:37,519 scotch and so actually Abby is now a 219 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:39,279 scotch drinker. They all have their 220 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:41,599 liquor preferences. It's a very specific 221 00:08:41,599 --> 00:08:44,159 thing and it's a it's a character trait 222 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,399 and the reason why I picked it is 223 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:49,440 because I wanted them to have in the 224 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,360 beginning Meredith and Christina drank 225 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,680 because you never saw women drinking on 226 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:56,959 TV. Women were always very nice and they 227 00:08:56,959 --> 00:08:59,600 were lovely. I mean really that long ago 228 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,040 I can't believe I'm saying it like that, 229 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,120 but that long ago women weren't the hard 230 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,800 drinkers on TV. They never sat in a bar 231 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,959 and belted back some drinks and then, 232 00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:08,800 you know, without like passing out or 233 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,720 having to be taken care of. So, they 234 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,320 were sort of hard drinking, hard 235 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,640 driving, hard playing surgeons. So, I 236 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,200 picked tequila cuz tequila seemed like a 237 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,160 great drink for them. As we moved 238 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,279 forward, what happened was Olivia Pope 239 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:25,040 was somebody who drowned her sorrows. 240 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,440 Like, she had emotional problems. And 241 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,279 the best way for me to sort of exhibit 242 00:09:29,279 --> 00:09:31,279 that is is, you know, we all know those 243 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:32,800 women who spend way too much time with 244 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,880 their bottle of red wine. We all know 245 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,320 those women. And it was a great way to 246 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,440 exhibit that. Um, the scotch was uh in 247 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,000 our writing circles, scotch felt like a 248 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,680 a way of um like its success and not 249 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:49,200 necessarily in the best way, but it was 250 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,320 sort of people's way of saying like, 251 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,240 "Oh, I've made it." And so the scotch 252 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,399 was for that. So the women all had their 253 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:56,560 and the hooch felt like that was her 254 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,839 like down home backwoods roots come come 255 00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:02,000 out to play and so it felt like 256 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,760 everybody had their little piece and it 257 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,320 all turned out to be alcohol but but 258 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,519 something you can physically do on 259 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:10,160 camera and that was part of it. You want 260 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,360 to find something that can be visual and 261 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,519 on camera and it doesn't necessarily 262 00:10:15,519 --> 00:10:17,680 have to be your characters getting drunk 263 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,000 but it speaks of something. For Olivia 264 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,920 Pope it was a level of taste. you know, 265 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,560 we created this wine called Dublet that 266 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:28,320 she drinks that um was supposedly this 267 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,160 very rare, expensive kind of wine that 268 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,399 she loved so much and it was became a 269 00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:34,079 method of bribing her. People would show 270 00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:35,519 up at her door, I found some bottles of 271 00:10:35,519 --> 00:10:37,920 dublet. It became a way of hanging out 272 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,279 with her father because he would talk to 273 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:40,959 her about wine. Oh, look, I bought a 274 00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:43,519 vintage Jubilee. It became a way of 275 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:45,279 watching her be miserable and drown her 276 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:47,600 sorrows when she drank directly from the 277 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,519 bottle with um one of her um clients. 278 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,240 You watched it become the agent that 279 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,680 described what was happening in her 280 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,800 life. It was perfectly set for that. 281 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,279 Meredith Tequila was the same thing. 282 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:04,800 Melly the Hooch was a perfect perfect 283 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,240 metaphor for everything that was wrong 284 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,480 with her life. And when you watched 285 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,399 Olivia Pope go searching for that bottle 286 00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:12,800 of hooch and she finds it and said with 287 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,040 such relief and then drinks it, you know 288 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,000 exactly what's happened. She's felt as 289 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,160 suffocated as Melly has and you 290 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,160 understand where she is emotionally. So 291 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,399 literally we use those bottles of liquor 292 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,519 as as benchmarks for who our characters 293 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:31,519 are and where they are emotionally in 294 00:11:31,519 --> 00:11:34,519 time. 295 00:11:38,079 --> 00:11:40,800 When I create characters and they end up 296 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,200 dying, people always want to know how, 297 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:44,720 why, when did you know that was going to 298 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,519 happen. You know, it's not like you cast 299 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:48,880 people for a series and think like 300 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,279 they're going to die this at this point. 301 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:54,880 But when you're planning your season, 302 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,600 you do sometimes know when someone's 303 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,360 going to die. You know, the character of 304 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:00,720 Denny, who was played by Jeffrey Dean 305 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,279 Morgan, who was amazing, was called on 306 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:05,440 our season board. He was called Dying 307 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,920 Young Guy. And the story went Dying 308 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,160 Young Guy Dies Young. That's all that 309 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,440 was on the board from the very beginning 310 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,279 of the season. Dying young guy dies 311 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:16,000 young. And we put it on the board and we 312 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,600 put the time that Dying Young Guy died 313 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,639 young and we left it there. And it was 314 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,160 incredibly difficult for Dying Young Guy 315 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,279 to die young because we really liked 316 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:24,720 him. But we knew that was going to 317 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,720 happen. We knew that Bomb Squad guy was 318 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,480 going to blow up. He was made to blow 319 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,959 up. It's literally all he was there for. 320 00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:32,560 And it didn't help that we cast somebody 321 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:34,000 that we loved. We still had to blow him 322 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,839 up. So, you know, sometimes when you 323 00:12:35,839 --> 00:12:37,519 hire somebody that they're going to die. 324 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:40,000 Sometimes you don't know that and it 325 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,760 becomes a really good story and you 326 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,839 realize that, oh, this story would be so 327 00:12:43,839 --> 00:12:47,600 much better if this person died. Now, we 328 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,120 work in a hospital, so people die all 329 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,880 the time. Or on Scandal, for instance, 330 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,880 Cyrus's husband, James, was not made to 331 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,480 die. Cyrus's husband, James, was 332 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,519 delightful and we loved him. And when we 333 00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:01,760 came to the place where it felt really 334 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,399 true that Jake would kill Cyrus's 335 00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:06,959 husband, we were a little bit devastated 336 00:13:06,959 --> 00:13:09,040 to have to do it. But it was also the 337 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,680 perfect story to tell at that time. So 338 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,320 you you calibrate what feels right at 339 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:15,839 what time. And sometimes you have to 340 00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:17,440 kill somebody. You don't have a choice. 341 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,279 You know, they're gonna leave the show 342 00:13:19,279 --> 00:13:21,279 and you're like, "Ugh, what am I 343 00:13:21,279 --> 00:13:24,079 supposed to do?" So you h like the idea 344 00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:27,040 that you can either make a meal of it or 345 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,639 they just disappear suddenly, which I 346 00:13:28,639 --> 00:13:31,200 always think is a terrible way to go. Um 347 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,639 is a thing that you have to decide how 348 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:34,959 you're going to do that too. So those 349 00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:36,480 were the hard choices to make like how 350 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,079 to do it, how to make it work, how to 351 00:13:38,079 --> 00:13:40,480 make it effective. if it's written in 352 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:41,920 ahead of time, if you know it's coming, 353 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,399 if that's the plan, in a lot of ways, 354 00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,560 while it's a bummer, it's also great 355 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,200 because you already have a chance to 356 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,760 sort of weave it in naturally. When it 357 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,800 comes to exiting a character, 358 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,240 the choice between killing a character 359 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,279 and writing them out is always fraught. 360 00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:01,519 Interestingly enough, I don't 361 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,760 necessarily prefer killing a character 362 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,199 versus writing them out. It depends on 363 00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:07,279 the situation. You know, think of a 364 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:10,079 character like Christina Yang. For me, 365 00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:11,839 Christina Yang needed a happy ending and 366 00:14:11,839 --> 00:14:13,760 she needed to live forever. So, 367 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,760 Christina Yang 368 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,560 gets written off into her most um 369 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,120 happiest circumstance. She gets her own 370 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,199 hospital with a room full of 3D heart 371 00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:25,360 printers and she's going to, you know, 372 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,720 get everything she ever wanted. She gets 373 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,839 her chocolate factory. Um Derek Shepard 374 00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:32,160 cannot leave Meredith Gray. He cannot 375 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,839 leave and walk away from his wife and 376 00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:35,920 children because that would make him a 377 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,880 jerk for all times. So story-wise, he 378 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,240 has to die, which is the worst, but also 379 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,399 the best possible narrative that you can 380 00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:46,399 come up with that's going to make the 381 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:48,720 entire, you know, storyline of those two 382 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,199 characters true. If he is the man who 383 00:14:51,199 --> 00:14:53,360 we've said he is, he's not going to 384 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,079 leave unless he dies. 385 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,560 I think it's important when you're when 386 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,000 you're developing your characters to 387 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,560 really know what they want and what they 388 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,560 need, which is sort of how I look at it. 389 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,440 Um, which is, you know, what they want 390 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,440 is what they think they want and what 391 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,760 they need is what you think they want. 392 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,519 Um, well, what you think they should 393 00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:20,240 have. 394 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,320 It's interesting like how you know what 395 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,240 those things are really have to do with 396 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,959 what story you're telling and how you 397 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:28,320 know what story you're telling has to do 398 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,519 with what those things are. So it's sort 399 00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:31,600 of a chicken and the egg process. But 400 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,279 when you really think about like what's 401 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:35,680 lacking in their lives 402 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,480 um how lonely they are you know for for 403 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,040 Olivia Pope for instance there's a real 404 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,760 quality of what she wants she thinks is 405 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,920 to break open scandals and get to the 406 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,519 truth. what she needs is some sort of 407 00:15:49,519 --> 00:15:50,720 truth and honesty in her own 408 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,040 relationship. When I was developing the 409 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,040 characters for Grace, you know, there 410 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,959 really did come a moment when it was 411 00:15:56,959 --> 00:16:00,240 clear that sort of um Meredith wanted a 412 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,720 home and Izzy wanted a brain and George 413 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,480 wanted courage and Christina wanted a 414 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,680 heart. Um it works quite well and it it 415 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,519 sort of brings you to every space you 416 00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:14,079 need to be in. What's wonderful about it 417 00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:16,639 is that it makes things very easy when 418 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:19,120 you're trying to explain who your 419 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,959 characters are and where they need to 420 00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:23,120 go. So, when you're writing a season, 421 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,199 it's really nice to keep people focused 422 00:16:25,199 --> 00:16:27,120 on what's important. You need to keep 423 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,320 focused on the fact that Christine is 424 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,920 worried she might be heartless or that 425 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:30,959 other people think Christine is 426 00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:32,399 heartless. You need to be focused on the 427 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:33,600 fact that Izzy doesn't like people 428 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,000 thinking that she's stupid. You know, 429 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,160 that really informs how a character 430 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,720 behaves or how a character reacts to 431 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,440 things. And so that was perfect for 1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,639 So, a pitch, 2 00:00:08,639 --> 00:00:11,120 for those of you who don't know, and why 3 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:13,120 should you know? Because they're the 4 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:17,119 worst. A pitch is when you go into a 5 00:00:17,119 --> 00:00:20,000 producer or a studio or a network and 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,359 you tell them the story of whatever idea 7 00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:26,960 you have. You say, "I have an idea for a 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,439 medical show about four young surgical 9 00:00:29,439 --> 00:00:32,079 interns who blah blah blah blah blah 10 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:34,719 blah." A pitch and it's usually, you 11 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:38,800 know, 5 to 10 minutes long and you give 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,920 them all the details of the show and in 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:43,680 television they'll tell you whether or 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,440 not they're interested in buying that 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,200 show and thus hiring you to write that 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,719 script or not. That is a pitch. 17 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:54,719 Pitching is probably 18 00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,680 the single most important thing that you 19 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,960 can do once you've gotten in the door. 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:02,480 You know, you want to get your chance to 21 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,000 write a television show, you want to get 22 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,560 your chance to to develop something. You 23 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,920 have to pitch. You you can't just do 24 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,439 whatever. You have to walk into the door 25 00:01:11,439 --> 00:01:14,479 and say, "Here I am. Here's my idea, and 26 00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:17,600 here's how it's going to work." 27 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,439 That is the most important thing you can 28 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:22,000 do. And if you're bad at it, it is a 29 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,040 giant challenge. So you really have to 30 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,799 figure out how to do it and how to do it 31 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:29,799 well. 32 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,000 Often times what makes a really bad 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,079 pitch are two things. One, no sense of 34 00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:41,840 structure. 35 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,040 Two, something you cannot follow. If you 36 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,600 can't take me from a plot a point to 37 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,560 plot b to plot c point and I don't know 38 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,640 what's going to happen or I have no 39 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,360 sense of where we're going or where 40 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,079 we've been, that's terrible. If I'm 41 00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:00,159 lost, 42 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:02,240 um, or 43 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,840 just 44 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,159 too much, like if it goes on for too 45 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:09,039 long and it gets sort of painfully long, 46 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:11,200 you're doomed. You want to be able to 47 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,560 get in, speak your piece, let them ask 48 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,800 you questions, and then you can 49 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,319 elaborate all you want to, and get out. 50 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:22,239 You start with the premise, you know, 51 00:02:22,239 --> 00:02:23,920 you tell them what the pitch is is 52 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,080 about. This is a show about a group of 53 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,560 young surgeons. Then you tell them what 54 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,720 the world is going to be. You know, you 55 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,879 give them like a paragraph of what the 56 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:34,480 world is going to be about. Then you 57 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,720 introduce the characters. You tell them 58 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,800 what the plot is going to be. Then you 59 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,800 tell them the plot. Then you tell them 60 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,800 what you told them. Then you tell them 61 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,400 how funny it's going to be or how moving 62 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,680 it's going to be or how great it's going 63 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,599 to be. Then you tell them how many 64 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:49,200 episodes you can come up with. Basically 65 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,959 like this is endless amount of episodes 66 00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:52,319 because we can do blah blah blah blah 67 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:54,400 blah. And then you thank them and you 68 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,840 leave. It's it's actually quite simple, 69 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,800 but it feels difficult. I think it's 70 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,920 incredibly important to know as much as 71 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,680 you can about your idea before you walk 72 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,720 in the door and pitch it. You don't ever 73 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,720 go in the door sort of vague, you know, 74 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,519 I want to do a show about Martians and 75 00:03:15,519 --> 00:03:18,159 that's all you know. But you also don't 76 00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:21,200 go in the door and say, I want to do a 77 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,319 show about Martians and their names are 78 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:24,239 Joe, Sally, Tom, and Eddie, and they 79 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:26,000 live at 4525. You know, you don't do 80 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,360 that either. That's way too many 81 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,840 details. So, you want you have to be 82 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,519 able to know all the details, but know 83 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:34,000 which details to share. And then knowing 84 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,840 all the details allows you to answer any 85 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,720 questions they may have. 86 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,640 For me, a really good pitch is about 87 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,840 character. If you come in and you can 88 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,680 tell me 89 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,280 how the story that you're pitching is 90 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,519 affected by the character or resonates 91 00:03:57,519 --> 00:04:00,319 with the character, I am there for you. 92 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,560 Like I am I am with it. It's really hard 93 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,720 for me to get excited about somebody who 94 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,959 comes in and just tells me it's a 95 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:09,519 detective show and she solves the crime 96 00:04:09,519 --> 00:04:11,360 and that's it. Well, I don't know what 97 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,360 I'm supposed to care about. I need 98 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,599 something to hang on to emotionally that 99 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:17,199 I know is going to carry us through and 100 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:18,720 I need to be intrigued by that 101 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,519 character. So, you really have to bring 102 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:23,520 character to me for me to be interested 103 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,840 at all. Um, everything stems from 104 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:27,280 character as far as I'm concerned. So if 105 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:29,440 you can't bring me the character then I 106 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,520 cannot sort of become excited about what 107 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,919 you have to offer. 108 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,479 I think the thing that makes a strong 109 00:04:40,479 --> 00:04:43,440 pitch is the ability to really capture 110 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,680 the listener's imagination almost 111 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,360 immediately. 112 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,560 I think you have to be a good 113 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,639 storyteller even in a pitch. You have to 114 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,120 be able to talk in in sort of images so 115 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,400 people have something to envision when 116 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,400 they're listening to you. You know, it's 117 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,320 very hard to just tell a story about 118 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:01,440 something. I'm going to tell a story 119 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,000 about blah blah blah and not have 120 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,440 people's eyes glaze over as they're 121 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,919 listening to you. My biggest tip, and 122 00:05:09,919 --> 00:05:11,600 I'm going to tell you this, and then 123 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,039 you're going to know it, and then the 124 00:05:13,039 --> 00:05:14,320 Studio Network are going to know it, and 125 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:15,520 then it's never going to work again for 126 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,199 me, but that's okay. Is I always say 127 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:21,440 things like, "It's extraordinarily 128 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,000 moving. It's incredibly funny. It's 129 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,560 incredibly romantic. 130 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,639 I never tell you what's romantic or 131 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:32,560 what's moving or what's funny because 132 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,280 you don't necessarily need to bring 133 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:36,800 examples. If you say something's incred, 134 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,639 it's going to be incredibly funny. If 135 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:39,840 you then try to tell them what's 136 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,360 incredibly funny, they will never think 137 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,280 it's as incredibly funny as you've said 138 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:44,880 it's going to be. So, you never tell 139 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,240 them what it is exactly that's 140 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,680 incredibly funny. We're going to have 141 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,120 the scene, it's incredibly funny, where 142 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,039 the two characters meet. Move on. You 143 00:05:51,039 --> 00:05:52,400 don't then pitch the incredibly funny 144 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,520 scene. We're going to have this scene 145 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,199 where it's incredibly romantic. The two 146 00:05:55,199 --> 00:05:56,720 characters make up. Don't tell them what 147 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,320 the incredibly romantic thing is because 148 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,919 it'll never be as romantic as they've 149 00:05:59,919 --> 00:06:02,479 imagined in their head. In a terrifying 150 00:06:02,479 --> 00:06:04,880 sequence, the two characters finally 151 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,319 save themselves. Don't tell them what 152 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:08,080 the terrifying sequence is. Just say 153 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,880 that, you know, like make sure you're 154 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,639 painting a picture, but not too specific 155 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:14,319 a picture because they will pick up 156 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:17,280 those details and focus on just that. 157 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:18,319 Did you say they were going to hang off 158 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:19,840 a cliff? How are they gonna hang off a 159 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,280 cliff on a television show? and that's 160 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:22,880 all they'll be thinking and then your 161 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,520 pitch is dead. So you have to stay in a 162 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,600 sort of a paint a picture but not too 163 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,360 specific a picture zone. It's very 164 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,360 important. 165 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,400 I have a couple of personal pet peeves 166 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,600 when it comes to pitching. uh and and 167 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,080 they're just personal. But one is 168 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,039 pitching actors as if they're already in 169 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:52,400 the roles because they're not. And you 170 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:53,919 never know when you're walking into a 171 00:06:53,919 --> 00:06:55,759 room what relationships that studio has 172 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:57,440 with that actor, whether it's good, 173 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,280 whether it's bad, whether they can work 174 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,080 with them, whether they can't. Um it 175 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,400 also sort of sets a a tone. It you're 176 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:07,919 saying already this is what the actor 177 00:07:07,919 --> 00:07:09,199 look this is what the character looks 178 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:10,479 like. this is who the character is 179 00:07:10,479 --> 00:07:12,479 without actually knowing that. And that 180 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:14,160 can either be a turnoff for a studio. It 181 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,360 might sometimes it might work, but 182 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,680 sometimes it doesn't. So, that's one. 183 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,120 And two, don't pitch music. Don't say, 184 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,880 "We're going to hear this song when we 185 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,720 open." And the reason you don't do that 186 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,400 is because you don't know the musical 187 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,319 taste of the person you're pitching to. 188 00:07:28,319 --> 00:07:30,080 So, basically, you're walking in and 189 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:31,919 you're taking a gamble that you're going 190 00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:33,520 to say, "It's going to be Jennifer Lopez 191 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,280 and we're going to have Madonna." And 192 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,960 they might love Jennifer Lopez and 193 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,120 Madonna, but they might not. You don't 194 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,880 know. And you don't want to be in a 195 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,520 position where you've then placed them 196 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,759 in a weird where suddenly all they're 197 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:46,880 thinking about is Jennifer Lopez and 198 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,240 Madonna. Will that work? Can we do that? 199 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,680 Can we afford Madonna? Can we afford 200 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,560 Jennifer Lopez? And then suddenly that's 201 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,759 all they're thinking about. They're no 202 00:07:53,759 --> 00:07:55,520 longer thinking about your pitch. You've 203 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,560 just removed any chance for yourself to 204 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,000 actually get heard based on the story 205 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,919 merits alone. 206 00:08:01,919 --> 00:08:03,520 So that's mine. That's my piece of 207 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,520 advice. 208 00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:12,160 I think it's important to find a way to 209 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,639 relatably market the show to the person 210 00:08:14,639 --> 00:08:16,560 that you're trying to sell it to because 211 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,080 that is when you're talking to business 212 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,440 people that is all they're trying to 213 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,800 think. How are we going to market this 214 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,560 show? It's nice to bring them an answer 215 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,280 to that question right at the beginning. 216 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,000 I often have seen 217 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,760 I've seen many times that a show gets 218 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,200 sold because they can come up with a way 219 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,440 to market it. Sometimes to the detriment 220 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,279 of the show because they've come up with 221 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:40,479 a way to market it but they don't know 222 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:42,320 what the show really is. But if you can 223 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,399 walk in with a way to market a show and 224 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,560 you have a good show idea, you are good 225 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,279 to go. When 226 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:51,519 I pitched Grey's Anatomy, we called it 227 00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:53,839 um Sex in the Surgery. I think that's 228 00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:55,600 what we called it. And it was a way of 229 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,360 sort of comparing the show to Sex in the 230 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,120 City at the time, which had been like 231 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,600 the show for women. It was something the 232 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,640 studio had come up with at the time. And 233 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,200 it felt like a very easy and concise way 234 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,720 to explain what the show was and the 235 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,720 audience that it would appeal to and how 236 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,680 to understand the show to a group of 237 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,440 frankly at the time guys who were buying 238 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,160 the show um at the network. And so we 239 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,720 wanted to make it simple for them. It 240 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,000 was a nice way of selling it for them 241 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,200 and a nice way for them to turn to their 242 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,480 bosses and say, "This is why we want to 243 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,800 buy the show." That was why we did it. 244 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,480 It was a sales tool. Now, it wasn't my 245 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,160 favorite way of selling the show. And 246 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,040 then getting to hear people refer to it 247 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,680 that way, you know, afterwards was a 248 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:40,000 bummer. Not because I didn't like Sex in 249 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,360 the City, but just I didn't want us to 250 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,279 be like labeled in any way before we 251 00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:47,200 came out. But it worked. 252 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,800 So, there's a thing. But you do have to 253 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,120 be conscious of what's going to work for 254 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,519 other people versus what's going to work 255 00:09:55,519 --> 00:09:58,000 for you. I also called the show Virgin 256 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,240 Surgeons for a long time because it 257 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,680 everybody laughed when they heard that 258 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,120 and they thought that was very funny. 259 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,240 And I thought, well, if that's going to 260 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,399 make people buy the show, great. I just 261 00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:09,440 want them to buy the show. And once the 262 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,120 show was bought, I was like, great. We 263 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,880 can then make the show we need to make 264 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,640 and make it the way we need to make it 265 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,839 so they can see what it really is. 266 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,160 There's a there's a trick that I learned 267 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,320 when about giving speeches which is is 268 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,120 if you can give your speech at double 269 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,079 time speed with music playing really 270 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,320 loudly then you can give your speech 271 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:35,920 under your your speech under any 272 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,120 circumstance. So, if you can turn your 273 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,839 like pitch into a speech that you can 274 00:10:41,839 --> 00:10:44,079 give at double time speed while music is 275 00:10:44,079 --> 00:10:46,079 playing really loudly, doesn't matter 276 00:10:46,079 --> 00:10:48,000 how stressed you are in that room, you 277 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,320 can deliver your pitch calmly. No matter 278 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,160 what face they're making, no matter how 279 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,320 annoyed they are, no matter if they take 280 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,000 phone calls while you're talking, it 281 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,120 doesn't matter. You can do it. So, it's 282 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,320 sort of like put yourself under the 283 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,480 highest stress situation in practice so 284 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,800 that you can be prepared to do it in a 285 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,000 less stressful situation. 286 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,600 It actually works too, which is 287 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,600 fascinating 288 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,240 for me. getting better at the pitching 289 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:19,680 process had a lot to do with getting 290 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:23,120 better and more comfortable 291 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,800 um basically in my own skin in general 292 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,240 like getting more confident with the 293 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,640 television writing in general 294 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,160 and also just getting more confident 295 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,959 with public speaking practicing public 296 00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:37,600 speaking more which I think for anybody 297 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,800 is helpful in any area of your life. I 298 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,240 began to practice pitching in front of 299 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,240 my friends. Like I would gather a group 300 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,480 of writer friends and practice pitching. 301 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,760 That I think is probably a great thing 302 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,320 for anyone to do. You know, get a little 303 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,079 group of peers together. All of you 304 00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:56,399 maybe want to be writers. Get together 305 00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:58,079 or all of you are writers who want to be 306 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:01,040 working writers. Get together in a group 307 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,120 and say, "We're all going to practice 308 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,680 pitching." And then you can do your 309 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:07,040 pitch in front of them and they can do 310 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,399 their pitch in front of you. You can 311 00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:11,680 give each other kind, constructive notes 312 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:15,920 and try to use that as a way of figuring 313 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,399 out what you need to do. And a lot of it 314 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,079 can just be maybe don't even give me 315 00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:23,040 notes, just practice. The very act of 316 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,120 saying your pitch aloud to an audience 317 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:26,560 can sometimes tell you what's wrong with 318 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:28,240 your pitch because you can sometimes 319 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,560 feel it just by the energy in the room. 320 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:31,920 Oh, they're not paying attention as 321 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,440 much. They're fading out. They're 322 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,200 they're starting to shift. You can feel 323 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,519 when the energy is waning. that can be 324 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:39,519 really helpful to you. So just 325 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:44,120 practicing can be helpful. 326 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,160 One of the things that I recommend when 327 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,560 pitching, especially when you go in to 328 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,800 see a studio exec who's been doing this 329 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,760 all day long and they're bored and 330 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,440 they're bitter or they're tired or 331 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,279 they're whatever, 332 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,360 I always had like a little bit of a 333 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,000 routine in my head planned for how it 334 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,200 was going to go because frankly, some of 335 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,000 those people can be mean, not purposely, 336 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,839 but because they've had a long day and 337 00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:15,200 they're not in the mood. food and 338 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,720 they're not your people, frankly. So, I 339 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,399 always tried to come in with two 340 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:22,639 thoughts in my head as I got better at 341 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:25,200 this. One, I always tried to think of 342 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,320 something I was going to compliment when 343 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,320 I got in that room. I always tried to 344 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:29,680 make it their shoes, which always made 345 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:30,880 it really awkward when they weren't 346 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,160 wearing shoes or when they had on 347 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,399 hideous shoes. Um, but it gave me 348 00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:36,079 something to focus on, like, I love your 349 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:37,200 shoes because you always have to make 350 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,440 some sort of small talk before you pitch 351 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,839 your shoes. Nice plant. Something like 352 00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:44,639 that. decent small talk because then you 353 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,440 just get that over with. Then I have you 354 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,200 have to have like sort of a small story 355 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,480 about yourself because they want to know 356 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,800 about you. Two smart details about 357 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,240 yourself that sound slightly 358 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,079 interesting. Tell that story. You're 359 00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:59,079 done. 360 00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,760 I will tell you I am a terrible pitcher. 361 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,040 I mean, and I mean terrible. I'm known 362 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:14,240 for being awful. like sweating. Um I 363 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,399 don't I'm not anymore, but like on the 364 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:17,760 pitch for Grey's Anatomy was probably 365 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,199 one of the worst pitches in the history 366 00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:23,760 of all pitching. Like sweating monotone. 367 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,760 If you asked me a question or spoke 368 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,399 while I was pitching, I would blank out 369 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:30,079 and have to start over at the beginning, 370 00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:33,760 which I did twice. I mean, I was bad. 371 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,680 So, there is hope for you if you're 372 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,880 terrible at pitching. But know that what 373 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,399 saved me was my pitch was great. Like 374 00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:44,639 the content of my pitch was well thought 375 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:48,399 out and was great. The way I pitched was 376 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:52,320 a hot mess. I I truly pitched it like 377 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,600 this. There is a show about a girl. She 378 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,800 is a surgeon. Her name is Meredith. She 379 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,760 like literally with a monotone full 380 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,560 panic speaking as fast as I could with 381 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,959 sweat pouring down my face. So 382 00:15:08,959 --> 00:15:11,040 you can read your pitch. You just 383 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,560 shouldn't. 384 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,240 Um and I really can't believe they 385 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,600 bought it. Like I truly can't believe 386 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,079 they bought it because it was terrible. 387 00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:20,240 But those things are very hard for me 388 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,160 because my brain does not want to. It's 389 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,480 like a disconnect for my brain. But it 390 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:25,839 is important to know how to get your 391 00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:27,199 ideas out and to get everybody to 392 00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:30,519 understand them. 393 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,279 I think I've seen pitches be anything 394 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:40,160 from people come in with like funky 395 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,000 interesting PowerPoint presentations 396 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,920 with pictures of actors who they, you 397 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,360 know, who are representative of their 398 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,920 characters and they have really funny 399 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,160 things to say about them even in a 400 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,560 drama. Um, it's almost like watching a 401 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,839 comedy set. I've seen people give 402 00:15:55,839 --> 00:16:00,560 pitches where it's very quiet and very 403 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,839 um, simple and very earnest and there's 404 00:16:03,839 --> 00:16:06,560 not a picture involved. I've seen people 405 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,639 come with crazy props. I've had pitches 406 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:12,720 where people have come in and wept in 407 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,480 the middle of the pitch for reasons 408 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,399 completely unknown to me, total 409 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,720 breakdown, but the pitch was so good, I 410 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,279 did not care. You know, it's because I 411 00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:22,720 know how hard it is and I know how 412 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,759 stressful it is. That is not a place 413 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:27,920 that a writer should be. I think it's 414 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,800 fascinating when people buy really 415 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,600 fancy, well done pitches from people who 416 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,079 cannot necessarily write or run a show. 417 00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:38,959 And I've seen that happen a lot. And I 418 00:16:38,959 --> 00:16:40,240 think it's because people are great 419 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,399 performers. But that doesn't necessarily 420 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:44,399 mean that they can really do a show. I 421 00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:45,920 think that there are many, many, many, 422 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,720 many awkward people who huddle in 423 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,800 corners, who are nerds and with their 424 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,600 nose in books like me, who don't want to 425 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,279 stand up in front of people and perform, 426 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:56,880 but who can write the heck out of 427 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,000 something. And I'm always a champion of 428 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,600 those people because I don't necessarily 429 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 think that pitching is a productive 430 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,480 example of what you're capable of as a 431 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,280 writer. I really just don't think that 432 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,600 writers should be giving pitches. To me, 433 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,240 you can overlook a lot of things because 434 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,039 of the way they approach character and 435 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:18,799 story. If they are good, they are good. 436 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,799 If you are a good writer, you are a good 437 00:17:20,799 --> 00:17:24,480 writer regardless of how you pitch. And 438 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,160 a lot of people will see that. That is 439 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:27,360 not to say you shouldn't be trying to 440 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:29,039 hone a pitch and try to become really 441 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:30,960 great at a pitch, but if you are a good 442 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,559 writer, that will show 1 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,080 A one-hour drama is generally 2 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:21,600 um five acts of a show. Um you know it's 3 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,920 a one-hour drama separated into five 4 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:25,760 parts 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,840 probably about 55 pages. Um although 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,840 they can be longer. I think my pilot for 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,360 Grey's Anatomy might have originally 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,040 been 72 pages long. Um they tend to be 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,559 long but between 55 and 60 pages long. 10 00:00:40,559 --> 00:00:42,879 Um divided pretty much evenly into five 11 00:00:42,879 --> 00:00:46,160 acts. There's sometimes a teaser for 12 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,559 some people at the front. Um, for 13 00:00:48,559 --> 00:00:51,039 scandal, if you look at scandal, that's 14 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:52,640 what you see when you see like there's a 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,079 little bit of scandal and then you see 16 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:56,960 the the little photo snaps and then the 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,719 word scandal appears on the screen. What 18 00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:00,000 happens before that is called the 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,520 teaser. Um, and that's pretty much how 20 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,159 it's structured. You know, it's it's 21 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:08,479 very clean. At the end of every act, you 22 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:12,479 want to have something um happen that 23 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:15,280 turns the story. um meaning that the 24 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,159 story should then sort of head in a new 25 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:19,759 direction each time you hit the end of 26 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:23,280 an act. In act one of your story, you 27 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,680 really need to introduce your characters 28 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,560 um in an exciting way and set up your 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,240 world in an exciting way. It should be 30 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,040 visual. It should be um intriguing and 31 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,600 it should draw the audience in. You 32 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,960 introduce your characters, you set up 33 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:38,400 your world, and you present your 34 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,400 problem, whatever your problem is going 35 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,240 to be. It doesn't have to be um 36 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,920 necessarily something big and dramatic. 37 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,119 Sometimes it can be something very 38 00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:49,119 quiet. It just depends on what kind of 39 00:01:49,119 --> 00:01:50,880 show you're doing. Think about things 40 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,680 like the show Parenthood versus, you 41 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,040 know, Grays versus, I don't know, 42 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,640 Breaking Bad. They all have very 43 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,320 different ways of presenting their 44 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,119 problem, but present your problem. Um 45 00:02:03,119 --> 00:02:05,759 and then in act two, you really want to 46 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:07,680 sort of step things up. You want things 47 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,840 to get worse. You want the situations, 48 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,120 and by get worse, I mean escalate. Your 49 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,360 situations escalate. Um, things heat up 50 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,360 for your characters either in a good way 51 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,160 or a bad way. You start to expand your 52 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,920 world a little bit. You meet more 53 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,000 people. You you understand the world 54 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,720 better. In act three, which is the 55 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,840 center of your your show, uh, it sort of 56 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,840 spans the right in the middle of your 57 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,680 show, the middle 11 pages, I'd like to 58 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,120 say. You want things to sort of start to 59 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,680 peak. Things get really hot. Things 60 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,440 either take a turn for the worse or a 61 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,599 turn for the most exciting as sometimes 62 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:49,599 we like to say and you you sort of get 63 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:51,599 either really worried or really 64 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:53,040 frightened or really engaged or it's 65 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,319 sort of that moment when you're thinking 66 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:57,040 like hold on to your seats. At the end 67 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,840 of that um the story usually turns in a 68 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,599 different direction. I always like to 69 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:03,680 say like a surprising a surprising turn 70 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,400 that you weren't expecting to go in. In 71 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,239 a procedural sometimes that's when the a 72 00:03:10,239 --> 00:03:12,239 new piece of evidence pops up, you know, 73 00:03:12,239 --> 00:03:15,120 and that's what I like to joke in act 74 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,319 four. That's when sort of the ticking 75 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,640 clock happens when you know that you 76 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,400 have this amount of time to do 77 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,120 something. For many shows when there's 78 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,840 no ticking clock, it's really when the 79 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,360 characters start to really reveal 80 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,000 themselves as who they really are. Um, 81 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,720 you start to hear more about them. 82 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,159 Somebody's secret comes out, somebody 83 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:37,680 tells you something about themselves, 84 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,040 you become closer to them, and that sort 85 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,120 of helps them. 86 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,400 It's sort of the moment that sort of 87 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,959 pushes them to whatever action they're 88 00:03:46,959 --> 00:03:49,599 going to take, which usually happens 89 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:51,280 moving at the end of act four, moving 90 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,040 into act five, which is when they really 91 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,400 sort of hit their moment of victory. 92 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:03,360 I believe that you shouldn't be writing 93 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,920 your script unless you have an outline. 94 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,200 So obviously you should know where every 95 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,920 act should end, but even before you 96 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,680 start writing your outline, it helps to 97 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,320 have a rough idea of where you want your 98 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,519 axe to end. And I always say it should 99 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:21,519 end on a moment that makes people go, 100 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:24,320 "Oh," or, "Wow," or "That's 101 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,759 interesting." It just has to make them 102 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:28,479 want to stay around and watch. Even in a 103 00:04:28,479 --> 00:04:30,400 non-commercial world, even in a 104 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,600 streaming world, you want people to lean 105 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,120 forward a little bit every once in a 106 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,280 while and want to stick with you. It's 107 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,080 important to remember because, you know, 108 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,600 even if you're watching a show streaming 109 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,000 and it's going continuously, you don't 110 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,160 want a flat show. You want a show that 111 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,960 has ups and downs and places for people 112 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,440 to go emotionally. It's a nice way to 113 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,800 remember how to do that if you're still 114 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,720 sticking with the fiveact structure. And 115 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,720 at the end of every act, something has 116 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,960 to happen to turn the story in a new 117 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,960 direction. 118 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:07,600 If you have an A story line, your A 119 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:08,960 story line is always the story line 120 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,280 involving your main character. Um, your 121 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:12,800 B story line is always sort of the 122 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,800 secondary story line. Sometimes your A 123 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,320 story line and your B story line are 124 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,639 equally as large depending on what kind 125 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,479 of show you have. Maybe you have a show 126 00:05:20,479 --> 00:05:23,759 with two leads. Um, or your B story line 127 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:24,960 could be a little bit smaller than your 128 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,400 A story line. And then you have your C 129 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,320 story line, which is, you know, some 130 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,320 people call it the runner, which is a 131 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,639 smaller story line that's not really, 132 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:34,320 you know, going to overtake any story. 133 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:35,759 It could be three scenes. It could be 134 00:05:35,759 --> 00:05:37,440 five scenes. It could be just be a 135 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,880 little tiny thing. Could be a couple of 136 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,800 lines of dialogue and, you know, every 137 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,280 once in a while. The a story line is 138 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:45,039 really the story you're telling in your 139 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:49,440 show. So that story line, obviously, 140 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,160 there's at least a scene and act. And I 141 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,000 say that because sometimes people have 142 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,759 really long scenes in their show. So I 143 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:56,720 don't want to tell you you have to have 144 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,960 like three scenes in an act of that. If 145 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,240 you have really long scenes in your 146 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,600 show, maybe you only have a scene and 147 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,520 act because it's five pages long or 148 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,160 whatever. But you at least have a scene 149 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,080 in act, possibly two, possibly three, 150 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,919 but whatever they are, they further that 151 00:06:09,919 --> 00:06:13,680 a story. Your B story, 152 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,800 one scene and act for sure. 153 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,319 That's just happening, you know, helping 154 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:20,960 that story along. your C story, maybe 155 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,479 three scenes total the entire episode. 156 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:26,800 The smart way to go is to try to make 157 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,600 your A story and your B story and your C 158 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,240 story intersect so that you're having a 159 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,840 scene that functions for all three of 160 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,160 them. That's always a good way to go or 161 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,919 not. You know, try to have a scene that 162 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:40,720 services all functions. But you really 163 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:41,919 want to make sure that when you're 164 00:06:41,919 --> 00:06:44,000 telling your story, you are servicing 165 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,440 the story that you need to tell and 166 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,000 you're not losing it somewhere, which I 167 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 think I also see very often in people's 168 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,199 scripts. You know, they're telling a 169 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:53,919 lovely story about their main character 170 00:06:53,919 --> 00:06:55,759 and then suddenly they disappear for an 171 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:57,600 entire act, like they've forgotten that 172 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,520 they were telling that story. 173 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,280 Structuring your your script really 174 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,120 means making sure that you are servicing 175 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,520 the story you are trying to tell. And if 176 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,720 it's if it's got some element of solving 177 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,319 something or or finding something or 178 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:13,919 doing something or carrying something 179 00:07:13,919 --> 00:07:16,720 out, make sure that it feels logical 180 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,960 like that the steps that are being taken 181 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,039 make sense and that you have room for 182 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:24,039 those. 183 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,560 There are absolutely all kinds of times 184 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,319 when I diver divert from the structural 185 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:34,319 rules. There are times when we tell 186 00:07:34,319 --> 00:07:36,560 stories backwards. There are times when 187 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,440 we tell stories that are just about one 188 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,199 story line going straight down. There 189 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:43,440 are times when we've told um stories 190 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,199 with no sound. There are times when 191 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:47,919 we've I mean we've done it all over time 192 00:07:47,919 --> 00:07:52,400 and broken every rule because you can. 193 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,479 But in order to break those rules, you 194 00:07:54,479 --> 00:07:56,319 have to understand what the rules are. 195 00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:58,080 And I always think it's really amazing 196 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,919 when somebody writes a pilot that's has 197 00:07:59,919 --> 00:08:01,440 nothing to do with any of the rules. I 198 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,520 actually think it's awesome, but in 199 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,440 order to do that, you have to really be 200 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,520 wellversed in what the rules are first. 201 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,440 So, I highly recommend you spend some 202 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,000 time really just understanding what all 203 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,720 the rules are and how they work and what 204 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,160 the structures are so that when you 205 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,080 decide to blow them out of the water, 206 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,000 you know what you're doing. Otherwise, 207 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,199 sometimes you can end up with something 208 00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:24,639 that feels a little bit messy. 209 00:08:24,639 --> 00:08:26,160 I think there's something to be said for 210 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,639 taking chances. Just know what chances 211 00:08:28,639 --> 00:08:30,879 you're 1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,240 I definitely have an incubation period 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,359 with everything. Not just every show 3 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:18,960 idea, every script I'm supposed to 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,240 write, every scene I'm supposed to 5 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:21,680 write. I sort of knock it around in my 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,720 head until I know. There there aren't um 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,160 checklists that I go through in my head 8 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,439 to say, "Am I ready to write this 9 00:00:27,439 --> 00:00:28,240 story?" 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,960 there aren't um rules that I follow that 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,360 you know very specific rules. Writing 12 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,680 doesn't work that way. I think that 13 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,079 there are there are checklists and there 14 00:00:38,079 --> 00:00:40,000 are rules of things to do to keep 15 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,000 yourself disciplined, but those don't 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,360 have anything to do with actually 17 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,239 writing. So, for me, I like to let an 18 00:00:46,239 --> 00:00:49,520 idea simmer in my head until either I 19 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,719 can't take it anymore or I've been given 20 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:55,039 a deadline for something. deadlines are 21 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:56,559 wonderful for making you get get your 22 00:00:56,559 --> 00:00:59,760 act together. And then I just start 23 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,280 writing. Um, and that that is the way of 24 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,360 the world. And either you'll hit a point 25 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,960 where you can't write about it anymore, 26 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,640 meaning it didn't work, or you find 27 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,640 yourself in a great space where you're 28 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,159 just flying with it because it's working 29 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:16,560 perfectly. What's funny is I wrote the 30 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,200 pilot script for Scandal in four days 31 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,119 and a year because Judy Smith and I met 32 00:01:23,119 --> 00:01:25,920 um the year before and then I basically 33 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,840 thought about it for a year and then I 34 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,320 went away and wrote it in 4 days mainly 35 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:33,119 because I didn't have any time. Um, but 36 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:36,560 also because I kept 37 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,119 trying to figure out how I was going to 38 00:01:39,119 --> 00:01:41,360 approach the story and I wasn't totally 39 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,079 sure the best way in or who 40 00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:47,920 how or when to come into the story at 41 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,920 all. You know, Judy had told me all of 42 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,560 these different aspects of her job and 43 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,159 they were all fascinating and I couldn't 44 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:56,479 decide how much to incorporate, how 45 00:01:56,479 --> 00:01:58,799 little to incorporate, what parts to be 46 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:01,920 inspired by. And so I just thought about 47 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,560 it for a year and then sort of a year 48 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,840 later I was done thinking truly and I 49 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,679 thought well I better go write this now 50 00:02:09,679 --> 00:02:14,360 and I went away for 4 days and wrote it. 51 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,200 To me the process of writing a drama 52 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,080 goes like this. You have an idea. You 53 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,760 turn that into a premise. You do a bunch 54 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,760 of research. You've really thought about 55 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,560 your characters. you feel sort of ready 56 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,800 to start writing. That's the point at 57 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,879 which I think you write a beat sheet. 58 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:34,319 And a beat sheet is where you decide 59 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:36,080 what all the beats of your story are 60 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,560 going to be. You know, Meredith is going 61 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,280 to be um she's going to sleep with Derek 62 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,480 and kick him out of her house. She's 63 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:43,760 going to go to work and she's going to 64 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,680 discover that surgery is hard. You know, 65 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,200 all the they meet Dr. Bailey and she 66 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,480 gives them the rules of the world. Those 67 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,319 are your beats. You put all those down 68 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:52,480 on paper as best as you know them in one 69 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,720 or two sentences, maybe even one or two 70 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,480 words. For me, sometimes I just write 71 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,040 one word down on a page. A beat sheet 72 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,120 really is a precursor to an outline. You 73 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,959 write your beat sheet. That beat sheet 74 00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:04,480 becomes an outline. The outline becomes 75 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,879 your pilot. You know, having a beat 76 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:09,680 sheet is a way of knowing what your 77 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,040 moments are going to be, what the 78 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,480 important moments are going to be. From 79 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,680 there, you need to decide what your 80 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,120 scenes are. From your scenes, you decide 81 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,720 what your outline is. So, the beat 82 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,720 sheets really after you've decided what 83 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,519 your story is, it's your first way into 84 00:03:21,519 --> 00:03:23,280 your story. It's your first way of 85 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,840 deciding what your story is going to be. 86 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,360 I try to really step into um a drama 87 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,680 knowing from the very beginning what the 88 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,840 last scene is going to be. You know, 89 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,760 obviously you should be breaking down 90 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,760 all of the beats of your drama, you 91 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,440 know, in each act. Make it like a little 92 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,920 chart with five acts, you know, little 93 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,440 lines between each act and writing down 94 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,280 every beat, important character beat 95 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,480 that you think is going to happen, every 96 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,720 action point. But it's also really 97 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,480 important to really be able to visualize 98 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,000 what that last scene's going to be. What 99 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,599 are you writing towards? What do you 100 00:03:53,599 --> 00:03:56,319 want to get to? That really helps you in 101 00:03:56,319 --> 00:03:57,680 defining what those beats are going to 102 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,400 be in breaking down your story. When 103 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,000 you're writing your beats, your beat 104 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,840 sheet or your you're breaking down your 105 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,360 acts and figuring out what you want to 106 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,360 do. There's a lot of ways you can do it. 107 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,159 Um, if you don't have a lot of space, 108 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:12,720 you can take just a sheet of paper and 109 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,720 you could, you know, divide it into five 110 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,239 sections and write down your beats there 111 00:04:16,239 --> 00:04:17,680 and sort of use that to break your 112 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,519 story. I do that a lot because it's 113 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:20,959 helpful on a plane or something like 114 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:22,960 that. You can take a big giant 115 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,040 whiteboard and separate that into five 116 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,720 sections and break your story that way. 117 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,320 That's really helpful when you're in a 118 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:29,840 group because it means that you're not 119 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,240 alone. Another way that a lot of people 120 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,240 do it that I actually like that's non- 121 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,080 techy, but you know, if you want to be 122 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,919 old school is write it on note cards and 123 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:41,680 then you can move the note cards around. 124 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,360 So, you write each beat on a note card 125 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,360 and the note cards get to be sort of 126 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,800 moved around like a puzzle piece as you 127 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,560 figure out how you want to do something. 128 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,680 It's probably my favorite way. Um, but I 129 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,759 don't do it very often anymore. And then 130 00:04:53,759 --> 00:04:55,199 a lot of people have use computer 131 00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:58,160 programs that do the same thing. Um, I 132 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,160 find those a little a little much 133 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,440 because I feel like there's nothing 134 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,800 better than sort of writing something 135 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,479 down, staring at it, erasing it, and 136 00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:07,039 going back. But for some people, the 137 00:05:07,039 --> 00:05:09,120 computer program part works great. 138 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:10,880 However you're doing it, you need a 139 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,479 physical representation that allows you 140 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:14,800 to step back and stare at that board and 141 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,400 go, "Does this work? Does this not 142 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,400 work?" 143 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,840 Your outline can be as detailed as you 144 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,120 want it to be. Some people write 145 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,080 outlines that are 25, 30 pages long. 146 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,600 Those are very intense outlines, but 147 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,840 they make writing a script very easy. 148 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:36,320 Some people write very brief outlines 149 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,080 that are like five pages long that are, 150 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,240 you know, a page an act. It just depends 151 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,199 on who you are and how you're going to 152 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:45,919 do it. The more detailed your outline, 153 00:05:45,919 --> 00:05:48,880 the better shape you'll be in. Um, you 154 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,800 write your very detailed outline, you 155 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,160 have an outline, you go over it several 156 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,840 times, you decide that it's right, and 157 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,680 then you write your script. That's 158 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,520 really the best way to go if you're 159 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,039 starting out and you want to do, you 160 00:05:59,039 --> 00:06:01,039 know, you want to do a job that you feel 161 00:06:01,039 --> 00:06:03,199 is going to work. To just like throw 162 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:05,680 yourself in and write a script is harder 163 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,160 simply because you don't know where 164 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,199 you're going and you don't know what 165 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,680 you're doing and you don't have a 166 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,360 compass to get you there. Having a 167 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,080 guideline saves you when you decide, I 168 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,759 have no idea what happens next and I'm 169 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:18,880 exhausted and I don't want to do this 170 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,440 anymore. I personally am not a person 171 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,199 who writes outlines. My staff, my 172 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:25,840 writing staff writes outlines, and 173 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:27,440 that's really necessary and really 174 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,800 important so that we all know we're all 175 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,160 on the same page. I have not written an 176 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,720 outline unless we were doing sort of a 177 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,240 group, right? Everybody was going to be 178 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,319 working on a script together. I have not 179 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:41,199 written an outline in since the pilot of 180 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:43,280 Grey's Anatomy. 181 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,400 Now, that's just how my brain works. My 182 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,680 brain is and I had to write an outline 183 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:48,720 for the pilot of Grey's Anatomy. That 184 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,000 was a development process. But that's 185 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,319 how my brain works. I do find outlines 186 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,160 to be extraordinarily useful because 187 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,080 they really are about everybody being, 188 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,240 you know, having the same understanding. 189 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,919 And since I don't I don't have to have 190 00:07:01,919 --> 00:07:03,360 other people have the same understanding 191 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,280 as me when I'm writing something, you 192 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:07,039 know, it's the only person who has to 193 00:07:07,039 --> 00:07:08,800 prove it is me. It's fine if I don't 194 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,479 write an outline. But I really do think 195 00:07:10,479 --> 00:07:13,039 an outline is so good for everybody 196 00:07:13,039 --> 00:07:15,599 going, "Oh, we understand what you mean. 197 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:17,440 Oh, we get this. Oh, we sign off on 198 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,319 this. Oh, we see your vision." Like I 199 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:23,680 think that's very important and I fully 200 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,160 support it. Like there's something about 201 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,599 it. It's really hard for me to write 202 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:28,880 outlines because I'm always waiting for 203 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,160 everything to be fully formed in my 204 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,560 head. But I I do it when we're doing 205 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,599 something as as a group. 206 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,800 There was a time when every episode I 207 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,199 wrote really started with a theme and 208 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:47,840 every story line sort of stemmed from 209 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,720 that theme. And on Grays, that's still 210 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,280 um very much the way of the world. We 211 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,160 try to have a voice over that happens 212 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,000 from Meredith and that voiceover sort of 213 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,879 speaks to the theme. The medical cases 214 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:04,080 sort of have to be part of that theme, 215 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,479 you know, um 216 00:08:06,479 --> 00:08:09,360 I don't know, loneliness or overwork or 217 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,879 whatever have to sort of be part of that 218 00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:12,960 theme. And then the stories that are 219 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,520 going on with our characters need to 220 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400 reflect that theme as well. It's not as 221 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,440 it's not as um intense as it used to be. 222 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:22,960 And I think for really good examples of 223 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,400 how that worked, you really need to 224 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,479 watch the earlier seasons because as 225 00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:28,879 we've grown and as the stories have 226 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:31,280 evolved, what happens on a show that 227 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,959 gets, you know, has been on the air 228 00:08:32,959 --> 00:08:34,640 longer and longer, the audience knows 229 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,640 everyone so well, there is not 230 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,640 necessarily the need to sort of stay 231 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,719 within that structure as much anymore. 232 00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:44,880 Everybody knows everybody already. It's 233 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,800 almost like there's a shortorthhand. You 234 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,640 know, I often joke like if people don't 235 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,040 know sort of this information already, 236 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,040 it's too late. You know, we're in season 237 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,959 13. But in the beginning of the show, 238 00:08:54,959 --> 00:08:56,880 it's a really good example of how to lay 239 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,120 things out and how to structure things, 240 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,440 especially in act one. And um especially 241 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,000 in season 1, you can really see the 242 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,440 structure of using a theme, laying out 243 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,360 the medical stories based on that theme, 244 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:10,959 having the voiceover relate to it, and 245 00:09:10,959 --> 00:09:13,200 having all the character arcs sort of 246 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,360 fall in line with the theme. It's very 247 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,760 clearly 1 00:00:12,639 --> 00:00:16,720 So to me, a lot of what writing is is 2 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,520 very much like being a runner. You know, 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,400 if you don't run every day, running is 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,800 incredibly hard. Those muscles do not 5 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,880 know what they're doing. If you exercise 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,480 those muscles, those muscles have muscle 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,160 memory. So if you run every day, running 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,719 becomes a lot easier, right? It's the 9 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:34,320 same with writing. So to me, I always 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,520 have this idea of writing as being like 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,160 there's a long hallway to the door where 12 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,600 when the door opens, that's when I 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,360 access the place where it is to just 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,920 easily get to the creative space until I 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,120 get to that door. I'm basically just 16 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:48,800 sitting at my desk staring at the wall, 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,160 feeling really bitter and sorry for 18 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:52,160 myself. And to me, when I think of that 19 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,000 hall, like if you're jogging down that 20 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,760 hall trying to get to that door, the 21 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,840 hall is incredibly long and it's filled 22 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,120 with, I don't know, candy and pictures 23 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,199 of Idris Elba and phone calls I need to 24 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:04,720 make and television shows I need to 25 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,320 watch and times I need to sit around and 26 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:08,720 feel sorry for myself. And then finally, 27 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:09,840 you get to the door and it takes 28 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,000 forever. But the more I go down that 29 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,720 hall, the less interested I am in the 30 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,720 food and the address and the phone calls 31 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,640 and the pity. And I get to the door 32 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,880 faster and faster and faster until, you 33 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,720 know, now because I do it every day and 34 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,799 the muscle memory is really like there 35 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:26,400 and honed. I get to that door 36 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,400 immediately. So it's not a big deal 37 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,600 trying to get to the door anymore 38 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,880 because like a runner I'm like perfectly 39 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,520 fit mentally in that sense as a writer. 40 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:36,960 And it's the same as being, I don't 41 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:38,720 know, a sprinter or something like I'm 42 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,880 good to go. That's what it should be 43 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,759 like for people, you know? It should be 44 00:01:43,759 --> 00:01:45,600 that if you're exercising that muscle, 45 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,119 you can get there faster and faster. So 46 00:01:47,119 --> 00:01:48,720 the discipline actually has a point. 47 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,960 It's helpful. 48 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,399 I used to think that there was like a 49 00:01:58,399 --> 00:02:00,880 special like magic golden hour in which 50 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,000 I wrote better than any other time, but 51 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,640 that time keeps changing. So I no longer 52 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,200 think that that's true. It used to be 53 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,120 that I wrote the best at night. Like it 54 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,720 had to be midnight and everybody was 55 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,360 asleep and every the world felt silent. 56 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,440 And now I wake up at 5:00 a.m. and I get 57 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,520 a lot of writing done, but I also write 58 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,959 really well in the middle of the day at 59 00:02:20,959 --> 00:02:24,480 the office. What's happened is really is 60 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,480 that I started writing while wearing 61 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,560 headphones with music blasting in my 62 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,760 ears. And now as long as I am wearing 63 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,519 headphones with music blasting in my 64 00:02:33,519 --> 00:02:36,160 ears, I can write at any time of day 65 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,239 anywhere like any place becomes my 66 00:02:38,239 --> 00:02:39,440 office as long as I have those 67 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,000 headphones on. And that is the greatest 68 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,480 gift I have given myself. Not purposely, 69 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,200 but like some sort of Pavlovian animal. 70 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,800 Like, as long as I have the headphones 71 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,879 on, I can write. What I think is 72 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:52,319 interesting about playing the music in 73 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:54,080 my headphones is, and this is just a 74 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,360 theory I have. I have no idea if it's 75 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,440 true. I think a lot of people think, 76 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,200 "Oh, she listens to music and it 77 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,760 inspires her in this way or that way." I 78 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,680 don't think so. I think the music 79 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,840 actually just occupies that piece of my 80 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,760 brain that would normally be thinking, 81 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,280 "Oh, I need to go eat some cake or I 82 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,120 have to do the laundry or there's going 83 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,959 to be a phone call or oh, I didn't do 84 00:03:12,959 --> 00:03:14,879 this or that." It just occupies that 85 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:16,239 other part of my brain that would be 86 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,480 spinning while I was trying to write. 87 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,239 It's fully occupied. I don't think about 88 00:03:20,239 --> 00:03:22,640 anything else but the writing. It's very 89 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:24,959 interesting, but it works for me and it 90 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:28,239 makes complete sense. I think what's 91 00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:30,480 wonderful about being able to write 92 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:31,840 anywhere as long as I'm wearing my 93 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 headphones is that I don't need anything 94 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,120 particular to be in the environment when 95 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,239 I'm doing it. Um, I can write in a park. 96 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:42,480 I can write in the hallway outside my 97 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:43,760 daughter's preschool while she's 98 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:44,879 figuring out whether or not she's going 99 00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:47,360 to stay in the classroom or like come 100 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,120 outside and decide she can't like 101 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,840 metriculate. Well, I can write in a 102 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,120 doctor's office. I can write in the 103 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,879 airport. I can write on soundstage. I 104 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:57,519 can write anywhere 105 00:03:57,519 --> 00:03:58,879 because of those headphones, because of 106 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:00,799 the noise cancelling headphones. I 107 00:04:00,799 --> 00:04:04,640 highly recommend people try it. Now, 108 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,560 what's really good, too, and I found 109 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,840 this. I have a couple of friends who do 110 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,360 this. I have a couple of really great 111 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:10,799 writer friends with really great shows 112 00:04:10,799 --> 00:04:13,439 who say like they have to have like one 113 00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:15,120 comfortable chair. One of them has this 114 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,359 ratty chair that I swear like something 115 00:04:17,359 --> 00:04:18,720 like there's a rat living in that chair. 116 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,440 It's so old. But they love their chair 117 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,199 and they can't write anywhere but that 118 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:25,360 chair. There's something about having a 119 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,000 habit, any kind of habit, any kind of 120 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,240 small ritual, even if it's like I'm 121 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,479 going to drink a cup of green tea before 122 00:04:32,479 --> 00:04:36,240 I start writing that's about sort of 123 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,759 flipping that switch in your brain to 124 00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:39,280 the writing space that I think is 125 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:40,800 important. So, if it's curling up in 126 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,240 your old ratty comfortable chair or 127 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,520 putting on your headphones or drinking a 128 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,400 cup of tea, whatever it is, 129 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,639 do it. You know, I don't think that 130 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:51,440 there are any bad ways of getting there. 131 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,639 Don't do anything unhealthy. But I don't 132 00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:53,919 think there are bad ways of getting 133 00:04:53,919 --> 00:04:56,919 there. 134 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,400 When I'm in the office, I am sitting at 135 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,000 my desk writing. And so you'd find on my 136 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,440 desk I it's very interesting because I 137 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,120 have my desktop computer which is often 138 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,880 playing the cut of a show. You have my 139 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,039 laptop computer which is often has the 140 00:05:19,039 --> 00:05:21,360 script up that I'm writing. I often have 141 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,280 like an iPad up which is playing some 142 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:25,759 music very loudly. Uh, unless I'm 143 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:27,759 wearing my headphones at the time. And 144 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,560 then there's just a lot of paper for 145 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,440 some reason, which is odd because I 146 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,800 don't necessarily spend a lot of time 147 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,400 with paper, but I know that I have piles 148 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,400 of paper on my desk, a couple of books 149 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,840 I'm planning to read, um, and lots of 150 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:43,600 post-it notes around of things I'm 151 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,639 supposed to be reminding myself to do. I 152 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:51,919 write do all of my writing on my um 153 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:56,160 MacBook Pro. Is it a MacBook Pro? 154 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,400 That's not a MacBook Pro. It's a MacBook 155 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,720 something. I do all my writing on my 156 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,240 Apple computer or my little MacBook 157 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,440 thing. And I 158 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,120 change it out every once in a while. I I 159 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,680 break them. I mean, it's very 160 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,080 interesting. I think I burned up one of 161 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,919 my computers, literally. like I finished 162 00:06:13,919 --> 00:06:15,840 a season and my computer started to 163 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:17,680 smoke cuz I think I turned them on for 164 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,720 too long. But I do and I love them. 165 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,800 They're very handy and I write 166 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,319 everywhere. So, and what's great is that 167 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:28,000 I can sort of transfer everything from 168 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,520 my desktop to my my laptop to my, you 169 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,800 know, in the car, out of the car, 170 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,400 wherever. So, it's not necessarily about 171 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,800 which machine I'm using, just that I'm 172 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,280 on my computer. I use Movie Magic 173 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:41,280 screenwriter to do all my screenwriting. 174 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,080 Most people do not. Um I think I might 175 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,440 be single-handedly keeping them alive 176 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,400 with my five shows. Maybe not. Pro maybe 177 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,520 a lot of people use it. I don't know. 178 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,800 But I love them. I think they're 179 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,440 awesome. And there's a notes there's a 180 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,039 place where you can make notes in there 181 00:06:55,039 --> 00:06:56,479 which is just sort of built in which is 182 00:06:56,479 --> 00:06:58,720 fantastic. Um I know a lot of people use 183 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:00,160 Final Draft and I think Final Draft is 184 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,680 great but for me somehow I started using 185 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Movie Magic screenwriter and it stuck. 186 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Putting yourself in a schedule really 187 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,759 does help. If you tell yourself, I need 188 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:16,160 to do write for two hours a day and then 189 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,440 I need to have my meetings for this much 190 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,759 time a day. Like scheduling your time is 191 00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:22,639 very important and not having not 192 00:07:22,639 --> 00:07:24,319 allowing for it for the interruptions 193 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,880 that generally try to come. That is very 194 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,360 helpful. And it's hard. I mean, we all 195 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,520 have a million other things that need to 196 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,280 come in. I have three kids. Like it's 197 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,000 not the easiest thing in the world, but 198 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,840 making a schedule at least gives you a 199 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,039 much better chance of making it. One, 200 00:07:41,039 --> 00:07:44,080 two, if you know at least what needs to 201 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,759 be done in terms of the writing, like I 202 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:46,960 need to get through act one, I need to 203 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,240 get through act two, you at least can 204 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,080 make a list of those things and try to 205 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,400 do those things that day. That's 206 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,520 helpful. Um, so that you know, you have 207 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:56,720 a schedule of the time you're going to 208 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,560 do it and the tasks that need to be 209 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,560 completed. Knowing what tasks need to be 210 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,400 completed is a really good way of 211 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,479 focusing yourself, especially when it's 212 00:08:04,479 --> 00:08:06,400 harder. The best way to keep from 213 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,240 procrastinating is to have a deadline. 214 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,520 And the best way to get something done 215 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,120 is to know it has to be done, period. 216 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,479 There's just don't give yourself any 217 00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:15,360 other options. I think it's easy to not 218 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,120 do something when there are excuses 219 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,440 made. And so, I just don't allow for 220 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,400 excuses. It makes psychologically it 221 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,400 makes a big difference. I don't I don't 222 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,000 know if that explains it for you or if 223 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,560 that makes it easier for you, but if you 224 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,720 just don't allow yourself to have any 225 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,519 excuses, it has to be done. If it's not 226 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:34,880 done, the crew doesn't have anything to 227 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,080 shoot. If crew doesn't have anything to 228 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,240 shoot, you're going to get fired. It 229 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,440 makes it fairly easy to get it done. 230 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,320 I decided a while ago that I don't 231 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,160 believe in writer's block. Now, writer's 232 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,680 block exists, but the best way I had to 233 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,760 combat the idea of writer's block was to 234 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,120 deny its existence entirely. Um, mainly 235 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,800 because it's so damaging. I I've really 236 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,320 I used to go through periods where it 237 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,320 was really bad. So, I just decided that 238 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:09,920 I don't believe in it anymore and that 239 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,600 it doesn't exist. And by the way, 240 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,200 through periods of time where I really 241 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,800 can't figure out how to write something 242 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,560 or what to write is to just write 243 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,680 something else. And part of what's been 244 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:23,040 wonderful for me is because I have other 245 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,560 shows and for a long time, you know, I 246 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:25,839 had sometimes I had three shows, 247 00:09:25,839 --> 00:09:27,440 sometimes I have two shows, but because 248 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,839 it's been, I don't know, eight years of 249 00:09:29,839 --> 00:09:32,080 me having more than one show, I get to 250 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,560 go back and forth between different 251 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,560 projects and switch my brain over to 252 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,120 something else. So I can tell you with 253 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,399 total assurance that if you are writing 254 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:43,839 something and your brain gets stuck and 255 00:09:43,839 --> 00:09:46,000 it can't go forward that you can then 256 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,720 switch over to another medium or another 257 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,120 topic and write about that and that will 258 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:52,720 unstick your brain on the thing that was 259 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,800 hurting. That's what works really 260 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,880 nicely. So I could write Grey's Anatomy 261 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:58,080 and my brain could get stuck and I could 262 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,760 go and work on Scandal and somehow that 263 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,080 unsticks my brain on the Grace thing or 264 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,839 on the novel or on whatever it is you're 265 00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:06,000 writing. So, if you're having a hard 266 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,200 time with one thing, let it go for a 267 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:10,880 while and go write something else and it 268 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,360 will help the other. 269 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,000 I write my episodes in order. I'm not a 270 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,800 person who writes um I'll write this 271 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,240 scene over here first or I'll write the 272 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,760 scene over here first. If I'm writing 273 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,360 something, I write I start at the 274 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,800 beginning and I end at the end. It's 275 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,160 very satisfying that way because when 276 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,079 you type, you know, the end, you're 277 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:37,839 done. Um, what's what happens for me is 278 00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:39,200 most of the time when I'm writing an 279 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,760 episode, there is a piece of the episode 280 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,360 that's what started the episode in the 281 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,880 first place, like some image that came 282 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,279 out of the episode and that's the germ 283 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:48,880 of the episode that then sort of spreads 284 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,480 out. But I definitely start at the 285 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,000 beginning and get to the end. And if I 286 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,680 don't know what the scene is, I can't 287 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,160 move on to the next scene. 288 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,120 I think if I had any thing to tell you 289 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,519 about your writing process, it's that 290 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:03,519 you need to let it be your own. You 291 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:05,600 know, somebody else will tell you that 292 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,279 they wrote a script in a day, and 293 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:08,399 somebody else will tell you that they 294 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,560 can only write at night, and somebody 295 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:11,760 else will tell you that they say all 296 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,839 their dialogue out loud like I do, or 297 00:11:13,839 --> 00:11:15,760 somebody else will tell you, you know, 298 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,279 that they write in a group. Whatever 299 00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:22,160 works for you is what works. There is no 300 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,399 one way to do this. Going to film school 301 00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:25,680 might work for somebody. Not going to 302 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:27,360 film school might work for somebody. 303 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,560 Reading these books could work for 304 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,880 somebody. Not reading these books. It's 305 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,440 not like there's a science to being 306 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,600 creative. Otherwise, being creative 307 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,480 would be called science. You know, just 308 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,120 do what works for you and keep going 309 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:42,800 forward. As long as you're continuing to 310 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,320 write, as long as you're creating 311 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,160 something, then you're being creative 312 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,000 and you're getting something done. Don't 313 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,760 ever feel like you're not following a 314 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,760 rule and thus not doing it right. 1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Every pilot is different. Every pilot 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,920 has incredibly different elements. Every 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,720 pilot, you know, especially now with so 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,960 many shows on the air, there is no sort 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,199 of one pilot which is really amazing and 6 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:26,480 great. You can do almost anything. You 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,119 know, all bets are off. However, I think 8 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:31,840 every pilot needs to have compelling 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,719 characters, a compelling story, uh, 10 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:38,079 compelling dialogue, a great opening, 11 00:00:38,079 --> 00:00:39,360 something that's really going to pull 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,000 the audience in. You know, attention 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,160 spans are shorter these days than ever. 14 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,800 You can turn and watch anything. So, you 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,079 want an opening that's going to make 16 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:49,600 somebody say, you know what, I'm going 17 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,520 to sit here and I'm going to watch this. 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,039 Not for any reason other than it's good. 19 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:56,960 So, in order for that to work, you 20 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,600 really need to feel like the opening is 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,760 special. And you need an ending that 22 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,080 suggests that what's to come is going to 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,159 be interesting as well. And you really 24 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:07,439 need to think about those things when 25 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:10,760 you're doing it. 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,000 I used to think that there were mistakes 27 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,920 that could be made in a pilot, you know, 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,680 really. 29 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,200 And and I think a lot of people think 30 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,880 that there are these big mistakes that 31 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,040 can be made in a pilot, like killing off 32 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,280 a character or um having someone move 33 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,280 completely. I think that there are 34 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,680 expensive choices that people can make. 35 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,040 I don't necessarily know that they 36 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,240 continue to be mistakes. Um killing off 37 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,840 one of your main characters in a pilot 38 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,600 used to be like something that was never 39 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,079 done. I think you can do it now and I 40 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:46,159 think it's interesting. I think famously 41 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:48,399 on, you know, Lost had a character that 42 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:52,479 was supposed to die really early on um 43 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:54,640 and in the pilot and they didn't kill 44 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,880 him and because they, you know, you're 45 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,640 not supposed to kill somebody and the 46 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,880 pilot was still great either way, but 47 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,719 you know, that was a pilot in which that 48 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:04,320 character was engineered to die in the 49 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,000 pilot and I think it would have been 50 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,720 cool to see what would happen if he had. 51 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:09,920 Now you could probably kill that 52 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:12,080 character and get away with it. I think 53 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,840 sort of doing something where you use a 54 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,280 really expensive set in a really 55 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,200 expensive location for your pilot that 56 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,040 then you somehow transport everybody 57 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,840 someplace else for the next episode is a 58 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,560 problem unless money is not an issue. So 59 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,080 there are expensive choices. Are there 60 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,879 are there choices that are just wrong? 61 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:34,440 Maybe not anymore. 62 00:02:38,239 --> 00:02:40,000 What I think is interesting about the 63 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,280 shows, even the ones that are in, you 64 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,519 know, Grae is in a setting that people 65 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:47,120 know. People, everybody thinks they know 66 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,440 what a hospital is like, but I feel like 67 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,879 we're doing what I call back of the 68 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:54,160 house um work at Grae. Nobody knows 69 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,160 really what it's like to be in an O. 70 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,440 Nobody knows what the doctors are 71 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,120 talking about while you're out and under 72 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,879 the knife. That's what we're showing. 73 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:02,000 We're showing the stuff that you're not 74 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,800 supposed to see. And scandal is 75 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,400 basically based on the premise that all 76 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,680 of this stuff is the stuff you're never 77 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,400 supposed to know about Washington. 78 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,480 One of the things that we try to do in 79 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,879 order to keep people educated is I don't 80 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,760 know if you'll notice all of the shows 81 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,879 have built into them 82 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:24,000 a new person. I like to say like a a 83 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,040 person who represents us, you as a 84 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,440 viewer, the new person in the world. So 85 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,760 that you we have someone who does not 86 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,680 know what's going on when we start a 87 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,920 pilot. For me, I found it's a very 88 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,120 effective way. Um 89 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,560 um Pete Noak and How to Get Away with 90 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,879 Murder, he made Wes be our new person 91 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:44,319 who are watching the world through. For 92 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:46,400 Grays, you know, we had our interns. 93 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,720 Scandal had Quinn. You have somebody 94 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,480 who's walking through the world who does 95 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,280 not know what the world is and therefore 96 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,440 needs things explained to them. Maybe 97 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,560 not in big giant chunks, but there are 98 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:59,840 things that they don't understand. And 99 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,840 in order for them to move forward in the 100 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,519 story, those things have to be 101 00:04:03,519 --> 00:04:05,920 explained. It helps because it makes it 102 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,480 feel like we're not stopping to explain 103 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,480 things to the audience. We're just 104 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,720 telling the silly girl who doesn't know 105 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,319 what's happening or the person who needs 106 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:16,639 to go and do something what it is that's 107 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:18,880 happening. And it makes us feel a little 108 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,359 bit smarter and a little bit more safe 109 00:04:21,359 --> 00:04:23,919 as an audience because we're with the 110 00:04:23,919 --> 00:04:25,600 characters on their journey versus 111 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,000 behind them. 112 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,639 I um wrote several different openings 113 00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:40,720 for The Scandal Pilot and I wrote them 114 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,400 over the course of a year. You know, I 115 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,800 always say the scandal pilot took a year 116 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,199 and four days because I really wrote the 117 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:49,120 pilot in four days, but I also wrote 118 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,160 these two other opening three other 119 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,639 opening sequences that sort of led to 120 00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:57,440 this moment. And 121 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,360 mainly because I couldn't figure out how 122 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,840 I wanted to introduce Olivia Pope, but 123 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:05,680 also because I couldn't figure out how 124 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,440 which Olivia Pope I wanted to introduce 125 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,520 to the audience. You know, there's an 126 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,759 Olivia Pope knowing all of Judy's 127 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:13,680 stories. Did I want to introduce Olivia 128 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,199 Pope before she'd made it to the White 129 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:19,280 House? Did I want to introduce Olivia 130 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:21,520 Pope after she'd left the White House, 131 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,120 but before she'd really started her 132 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,080 company? Did we want to meet Olivia Pope 133 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,280 sort of in progress, you know, already 134 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,000 as Olivia Pope? It felt like we had a 135 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,080 lot of options there. And so one of the 136 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,639 openings was 137 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:40,800 really about Olivia and Harrison. I 138 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,639 think you we come upon her and she's 139 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:45,680 running through an airport and she's not 140 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,680 running very fast because she's in 141 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:48,800 terrible shape. She looks great but 142 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,560 she's in terrible shape and Harrison 143 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,240 literally sort of picks her up and runs 144 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,080 with her and you sort of get this sense 145 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,759 of their friendship. You know, they're 146 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:58,240 on a plane and they open pieces of gum 147 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,680 and they give them to one another. like 148 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,320 they're just very in sync and then 149 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,479 suddenly they're in a boardroom and 150 00:06:04,479 --> 00:06:06,880 they're lobbying to get a job and you 151 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,560 suddenly understand that this job that 152 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,600 they're lobbying to get is something 153 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,520 that people like and they're you feel 154 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,960 like they're very young people their age 155 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,680 shouldn't be getting and Olivia gives 156 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,680 sort of the speech of her life about how 157 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:20,880 they're going to take their client over 158 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:21,840 and how they're going to handle this 159 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:23,199 client and how they're gonna you know 160 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:24,400 you know you want to give us this client 161 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:25,680 and we wouldn't be standing in this room 162 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,039 already if you hadn't already decided 163 00:06:27,039 --> 00:06:28,160 you were going to hire us so don't 164 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,759 pretend you're not going to and you're 165 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:30,720 going to pay us this money and we're 166 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,360 waiting for a check please basically and 167 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,440 they get the job and you sort of cut 168 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,120 back to see Abby and Huck um sort of 169 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:40,880 they're all waiting back in their own 170 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,160 office trying to figure out if they've 171 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,440 gotten this job and they're all very 172 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:44,720 nervous because it's clear that if they 173 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:45,840 don't get this job they're going to be 174 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:48,800 broke and Olivia and Harrison arrive 175 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,160 back at the office. I don't know if they 176 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,840 were called that then, but back at the 177 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:54,800 office and with a check and everybody's 178 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,479 really relieved. And that was like the 179 00:06:56,479 --> 00:06:58,960 original opening and it was fun and it 180 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,280 was young, but it wasn't dynamic enough. 181 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:04,319 It didn't um give you real sense of 182 00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:07,919 excitement. It felt sweet. Um and 183 00:07:07,919 --> 00:07:10,880 honestly, given the network we were on, 184 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,120 it felt a little too young. And so I 185 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,240 thought this isn't for us. So then I 186 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,400 wrote another one and the next one felt 187 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,319 correct in age. They were on they were 188 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:25,599 in New York. They were sort of going 189 00:07:25,599 --> 00:07:27,199 into working their way into a fancy 190 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:28,960 apartment building and you weren't quite 191 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,560 sure why. And they sort of muscle their 192 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,599 way past a dormant verbally. They on the 193 00:07:35,599 --> 00:07:36,960 way in the elevator all the way up 194 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,639 they're sort of having kind of a 195 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:40,080 conversation like the one she was having 196 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,199 with Steven in the pilot that you see. 197 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:45,199 They stand outside an apartment door and 198 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:46,560 Olivia says, "No matter what we see 199 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,240 inside, nobody says a word. Nobody 200 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,160 blinks. Nobody makes a face. Nobody acts 201 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,160 shocked. Nothing." They get into the 202 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,599 apartment and you realize that they're 203 00:07:53,599 --> 00:07:55,759 standing in front of a man who's holding 204 00:07:55,759 --> 00:07:57,520 a butcher knife and he's covered in 205 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,360 blood and on the floor is his very dead 206 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,120 business partner. And they you watch 207 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,520 them and he's hysterical like freaking 208 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,599 out. And you watch them handle the 209 00:08:07,599 --> 00:08:10,240 situation and sort of cover the whole 210 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,000 thing up, take care of the body and get 211 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,759 it out of there. And she says to the man 212 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:15,759 at the end, you know, you don't, he 213 00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:16,879 says, "What do I do now?" And she says, 214 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:19,280 "You go home and you kiss your wife and 215 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,120 you play with your kids and you never 216 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,160 think about the fact that you act 217 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,520 shocked on Monday when someone tells you 218 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,560 that your business partner has been 219 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,240 murdered and you don't tell anybody. Not 220 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,919 your priest, not your lawyer, not your, 221 00:08:27,919 --> 00:08:29,280 you know, baker. You don't even whisper 222 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,280 it to God that you have, you know, 223 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,039 murdered your friend and you keep it to 224 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:34,399 yourself and you suffer with with it for 225 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:35,839 the rest of your life. And you thank 226 00:08:35,839 --> 00:08:37,599 everybody. You thank God at night that 227 00:08:37,599 --> 00:08:40,240 you have us basically." And it's a 228 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,240 really very clean like stark scene and 229 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,640 we ended up using it by the way that 230 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,519 very notion of that scene at when Quinn 231 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:52,080 is left with a dead body at the end of 232 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,000 um season one of Scandal. That's 233 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,680 basically the scene that we use when 234 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,440 Quinn is left covered in blood standing 235 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,640 there calling Olivia to help her. 236 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,399 What I loved about it was that it gave 237 00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:04,000 you a very stark sense of what they did 238 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,800 for a living. Maybe too stark. like I 239 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,200 think you felt like maybe they were just 240 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,959 gangsters almost um and that they did a 241 00:09:12,959 --> 00:09:15,440 lot of sort of wet work in the CIA sense 242 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,040 for a living and I didn't know that 243 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,440 that's where we wanted to go so quickly. 244 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,839 It also made me made it very clear that 245 00:09:21,839 --> 00:09:24,320 Olivia Pope was maybe not somebody who 246 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,320 wore the white hat and who was maybe not 247 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,640 one of the good guys and that got in the 248 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,600 way. It was also not clear who was in 249 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,080 charge in that scene. you know, the guys 250 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,000 were doing as much work as she was. And 251 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,080 while she was the talker, they were the 252 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,640 muscle. So, it it it didn't give us a 253 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,360 sense of her power. 254 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,399 And finally, I came up with the version 255 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,440 that you see now, which is we needed an 256 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,440 outsider to tell us how important Olivia 257 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,000 Pope was. We needed someone to show us 258 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,640 who Olivia Pope was. So, you now see her 259 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,560 through the eyes of Quinn, and you don't 260 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:00,399 actually get introduced to Olivia Pope. 261 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:01,839 you have somebody else introduce us to 262 00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:03,600 Olivia Pope. You know, Quinn and 263 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,000 Harrison talk about Olivia Pope and they 264 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,600 make her seem larger than life. They 265 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,600 talk about this world. They did the 266 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,279 thing that I've been saying, this is the 267 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,040 world we want to see. They basically 268 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,399 say, this is the world you're going to 269 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:16,640 see if you want in. You know, this is 270 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,079 the magical world you're going to get to 271 00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:20,560 enter if you say you the magic words. 272 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:22,160 And basically at the end of that scene, 273 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,000 Quinn says the magic words, I want to be 274 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,560 a gladiator in a suit. And she's in and 275 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,560 we're in at the same time. and you feel 276 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,120 like you're starting a journey. And I 277 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,800 wasn't absolutely sure it was going to 278 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,720 work. I mean, there's a lot of 279 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,040 incredibly fast talking in that scene. 280 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,399 There's a lot of, you know, 281 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:42,079 it feels like a Washington world when 282 00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:43,760 you start and you're asking the audience 283 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,640 to enter a world that feels very rare. 284 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,279 And in order to do that, that scene has 285 00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:51,440 to work perfectly. And those two actors 286 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,519 were amazing together and really sold 287 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:56,720 it. I really knew that the opening that 288 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,480 we ended up using that I ended up using 289 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,320 in the pilot of Scandal was the correct 290 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,120 opening because I understood after a 291 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,680 while that one I needed an outside 292 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:07,839 person to enter our world for us and 293 00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:09,839 show us what the world was. You know, 294 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:12,160 first I showed it being sort of young 295 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,160 and cute. Then I showed it being really 296 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,240 dark and no matter what I did, I wasn't 297 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,480 explaining the world correctly. So I 298 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,160 needed somebody to sort of show us what 299 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,040 that world could be. And two, I 300 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,800 understood that in order for Olivia Pope 301 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,040 to have the um 302 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,040 the the quality that we needed her to 303 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,240 have, in order for her to feel like an 304 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,839 icon, in order for her to feel like 305 00:11:33,839 --> 00:11:35,600 somebody that everybody knew about but 306 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,320 nobody knew, uh I needed her to be 307 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:39,680 somebody that other people could talk 308 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:41,680 about. And you can't have a character 309 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,120 like that talking about themselves 310 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,959 because then they just seem like a jerk. 311 00:11:44,959 --> 00:11:46,640 you needed to have other people talking 312 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,160 about her and you needed somebody who'd 313 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,560 never met her to sort of gasp at the 314 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,880 mention of her name. And in order to 315 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,240 make that happen, I really needed to 316 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:55,680 have a scene in which two characters 317 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,279 were having a conversation that did not 318 00:11:57,279 --> 00:12:01,440 include her. And that was, you know, the 319 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,680 way it that was just the way it felt 320 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:05,440 right. And the minute I hit upon the 321 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,279 idea, first of all, the scene wrote 322 00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:08,720 itself. I wrote that scene in like three 323 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:09,839 minutes or something. It was the fastest 324 00:12:09,839 --> 00:12:11,519 scene I've ever written. And second of 325 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:14,720 all, it just it worked. It made it clear 326 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,120 immediately who Olivia Pope was, what 327 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,880 the world was, how you were going to 328 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,880 enter the world, and how exciting it 1 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,000 well dialogue is almost everything I 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,160 think what a character says and what a 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,760 character does not 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,039 say tells you everything you need to 5 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:23,279 know when you're watching something and 6 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:25,800 so when you're writing something you 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,720 really want to be careful about the 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,240 words you choose I think a lot of people 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,759 get lazy about what they let a character 10 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:35,280 say or what they let a character not say 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,440 I think that you know Breaking Bad had 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,680 some of the best dialogue I've ever seen 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,440 I always say the I am the one who knocks 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,200 speech might be one of the best things 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,280 I've seen in a long long long long long 16 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,280 time it's 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,920 lovely there there are wonderful moments 18 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,120 in a lot of things I think there are 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,199 some shows that you you know that I 20 00:00:56,199 --> 00:00:57,920 think you should watch for the moments 21 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,559 when characters don't say anything I'm 22 00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:02,280 very excited right now about shows where 23 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:03,760 there are scenes in which everything is 24 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,360 conveyed but no one has said a word um 25 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:07,560 that might be why I like the crown so 26 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:08,799 much right 27 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:12,320 now The West Wing was fantastic with 28 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,439 language you know you really understood 29 00:01:14,439 --> 00:01:16,799 the characters based on how smart they 30 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:17,799 were with their 31 00:01:17,799 --> 00:01:19,960 language there's there's a lot of really 32 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:21,640 good stuff out there right now I mean I 33 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:22,920 think you should just watch a bunch of 34 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,400 different shows and see how they use 35 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,040 dialogue and pay attention to what 36 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,920 feels um real and what feels stilted pay 37 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,119 attention to those moments when you 38 00:01:33,119 --> 00:01:34,799 think my God everyone's telling me 39 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:37,000 exactly how they feel and instead of 40 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,000 showing me and see how that engages you 41 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,159 or disengages you from a 42 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,920 show I try really hard to think of my 43 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,719 dialogue as being the conversations that 44 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:55,880 real people have you know 45 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,079 even even the more sort of loud 46 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,680 Shakespearean bigger characters that I 47 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,600 have they speak in a way that those 48 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,280 kinds of people would speak I suppose 49 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,160 you know a Cyrus Bean who has lots to 50 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,080 say or a papa Pope who has more than 51 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,599 enough to say for them that that charact 52 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:18,360 the characterizations of what they say 53 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:19,720 that's real for 54 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,840 them and then everybody else I really 55 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,280 just try to make it seem like people are 56 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,879 having conversations the kind you would 57 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:27,440 overhear someone having if you were 58 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,800 hiding in a closet in their house or 59 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,879 something I think you have to if you are 60 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:33,800 looking to make your dialogue sound 61 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:35,959 authentic if you want your dialogue to 62 00:02:35,959 --> 00:02:38,200 have a real quality that doesn't feel 63 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,720 cliched or or like what I call TV talk 64 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:42,879 you know I'm always saying that sounds 65 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:45,040 like TV if you don't want it to sound 66 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,480 like TV really listen to the 67 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,599 conversations of people around you you 68 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:52,040 know become an EES dropper just do it 69 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,760 it's first of all it's incredibly fun 70 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,800 but second of all you'll start to hear 71 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,400 how people talk you know people don't 72 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,000 talk in complete sentence sentences 73 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,640 people don't always know exactly what 74 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:05,120 they're going to say people use the 75 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,120 wrong words people drop out people talk 76 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,799 over one another and people say some 77 00:03:11,799 --> 00:03:14,159 really crazy stuff sometimes nobody says 78 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:15,360 all the perfect things at all the 79 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,640 perfect times and when you've heard 80 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:19,760 dialogue 81 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,760 before it's a cliche already if anything 82 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,640 you've ever heard anybody say is a 83 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,480 cliche so don't say it but if you think 84 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,120 about yourself as being somebody who 85 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,760 listens to people conversations and 86 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,319 becomes very versed in like having an 87 00:03:33,319 --> 00:03:37,200 ear for how people talk or says all your 88 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,560 dialogue out loud while you're writing 89 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,879 it which is something I do to make sure 90 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:43,120 that it sounds like something someone 91 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,760 would say or you get somebody else to 92 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,400 read your dialogue out loud for you 93 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:48,760 because then you can really hear how it 94 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,400 sounds those are all really good ways of 95 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,920 making sure your dialogue starts to 96 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,200 sound natural 97 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,000 I think one of the most 98 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,319 important rules or my rules anyway in 99 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:10,239 dialogue is human beings rarely say 100 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:11,480 exactly what they 101 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,840 mean people rarely say here are my 102 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,040 emotions and here's why I feel those 103 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,759 emotions and here's what my therapist 104 00:04:18,759 --> 00:04:21,759 told me to tell you about my emotions so 105 00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:23,160 you know there's text and there's 106 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,360 subtext the text is you know the stuff 107 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,440 we really say the subtext is what we 108 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,080 really mean when we say it I don't think 109 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,960 that people's subtext should be written 110 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,080 as dialogue ever if you can find another 111 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,320 way to convey that subtext visually 112 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,560 silently or just using the text to do so 113 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,039 do it but really be mindful of not 114 00:04:48,039 --> 00:04:51,320 allowing that subtext to be text it's 115 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:52,560 always really painful when you're 116 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,639 watching a show and someone says don't 117 00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:56,240 you see my heart is broken and here is 118 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:57,639 why my heart is broken and here's what 119 00:04:57,639 --> 00:04:59,240 you've done to it and my therapist told 120 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,560 me blah blah blah blah and my heart is 121 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:06,080 it's too much it gets really awful 122 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Shakespeare can get away with it you 123 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,360 cannot neither can I you know we really 124 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,840 want to stick to a world in which we're 125 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,680 allowing the actress to convey those 126 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,919 things that we're trying to tell not say 127 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:25,720 them I think when you're writing 128 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,520 dialogue you shouldn't be trying to 129 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,360 write like anyone and you shouldn't be 130 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,800 thinking every character needs to sound 131 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,600 like me you know I hear my character 132 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,560 sounding very different you know Papa 133 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,720 Pope I think sounds very different in 134 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,759 the way he talks than somebody who's 135 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:48,400 much more hesitant um and I think that 136 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,680 comes from thinking about who your 137 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,400 characters are people are much more 138 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,240 verbose than some people it just feels 139 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,919 natural that some of them have more to 140 00:05:57,919 --> 00:05:59,880 say than others and you have have to 141 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,560 think about that Christina Yang is far 142 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,360 more sarcastic and cutting in cold than 143 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,680 Dr Bailey is how does that happen that's 144 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,000 that's in the word choice you're 145 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,280 choosing think about the word choice and 146 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:14,880 how you're using words with them it 147 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,039 doesn't have to be your own voice it 148 00:06:17,039 --> 00:06:19,120 just has to be a true 149 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,120 voice when you're thinking about your 150 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,360 characters when you're thinking about 151 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,000 who a character is and what they're like 152 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,120 George O 153 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Ali very um ner nous guy terribly 154 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,880 awkward almost always saying the wrong 155 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,280 thing almost always feeling like he 156 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:39,319 needs to backtrack when he's talking um 157 00:06:39,319 --> 00:06:42,680 Christina Yang very precise in what she 158 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,560 says and very sure that she needs to 159 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,599 make sure that she know that you know 160 00:06:47,599 --> 00:06:49,639 that she thinks that you're stupid you 161 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:52,160 know when she's insulting you George Ali 162 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,680 on the other hand everything was very 163 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,879 apologetic and it was just the tone that 164 00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:59,160 he took you have to think about who your 165 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,120 character are and make the dialogue fit 166 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,560 the personalities that you've given your 167 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,440 characters you know the Bailey when a 168 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,080 perfect example is Bailey biley would 169 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,479 have these Aras where she would rant 170 00:07:10,479 --> 00:07:11,800 about things and she would be very tough 171 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,800 on people and she had very clean sense 172 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,520 of who she was but then when we took 173 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,120 that character back in time and we 174 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,360 showed her showed you her as a resident 175 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,280 that Resident that was Dr Bailey was 176 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,520 very mumbly she was very hesitant she 177 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,879 was terrified and shy and it played play 178 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:31,759 in her language and the way that 179 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:34,199 character 180 00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:41,879 spoke I'm always writing dialogue with 181 00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:43,879 my actors in mind once we're cast you 182 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:46,199 know once we've cast a show I can't hear 183 00:07:46,199 --> 00:07:49,280 anything but my actors and that makes it 184 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,599 fun because you already know what they 185 00:07:50,599 --> 00:07:52,440 sound like and you already have sort of 186 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,319 a vision of them in your head so 187 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:56,639 whenever I'm writing I hear their voices 188 00:07:56,639 --> 00:07:59,199 in my head sometimes and that makes it 189 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:00,199 really 190 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:04,000 and more interesting for me in terms of 191 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,159 dialogue I I work under the theory that 192 00:08:07,159 --> 00:08:10,720 dialogue is text the dialogue exists as 193 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,199 the dialogue exists we're not changing 194 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:15,280 the dialogue there's no reason to change 195 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,199 the dialogue I am a writer you are an 196 00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:21,680 actor so while I will never tell you how 197 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,120 to act you will never tell me how to 198 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,120 write we let each other do our their 199 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,000 jobs and so I love being surprised by 200 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,039 what they do with the words but I want 201 00:08:30,039 --> 00:08:34,640 to hear the words and they bring so much 202 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,479 to those words that sometimes it's the 203 00:08:38,479 --> 00:08:40,360 opposite of anything I ever imagined a 204 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,880 scene would be but it's always so much 205 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,519 better so much richer so much more 206 00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:46,560 original than I ever imagined so I love 207 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,000 that 1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,200 So looking at the pilot of grays and 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,679 thinking about the structure, 3 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:13,120 interestingly enough, it feels like it's 4 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:16,080 a good example of how one how to lay 5 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:18,640 something out. So if you think about, 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,880 you know, there are five acts in a pilot 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,800 and every act is roughly 11ish pages, 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,480 although could be a little bit longer, 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,560 could be a little bit shorter. 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,160 So, act one is really the introduction 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:31,840 of the characters, the introduction of 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,760 the world. I've said that you really 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,559 want to start your pilot out with an 14 00:00:36,559 --> 00:00:39,040 exciting um opening. And by exciting, I 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,960 don't mean everything's have to blow up. 16 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,120 I mean exciting in that you want an 17 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,840 opening that makes someone lean in. 18 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,480 Uh and I often say this because I feel 19 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,520 like people don't get this. A cliche is 20 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,559 anything you've heard or seen before. 21 00:00:54,559 --> 00:00:56,879 So, don't do it. You know, I would say 22 00:00:56,879 --> 00:00:58,160 any line of dialogue that you've ever 23 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,000 heard anybody say before is already a 24 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,079 cliche, so don't write it down. It 25 00:01:02,079 --> 00:01:04,559 shouldn't be done. Any scene, don't do 26 00:01:04,559 --> 00:01:06,080 like, "Oh, I've seen this scene before, 27 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,600 so it's a really cool idea, so I'm going 28 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,360 to just do something like that." Do 29 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,720 something original. If you've seen it 30 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,640 before, why would you do it again? 31 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,400 Someone's already done it. Granted, 32 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,240 there's almost nothing new under the 33 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,840 sun, but there are different 34 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,680 interpretations and different ways of 35 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,159 thinking of things that are new. But 36 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:23,680 you're not, your goal isn't to copy 37 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,280 somebody that you admire. your goal is 38 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,799 to be the thing that other people would 39 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:29,280 admire themselves. So, if you think 40 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,560 about at like act one, um act one is 41 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,079 really all about finding your is setting 42 00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:35,680 up a world, introducing your characters, 43 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,920 and then having your inciting incident. 44 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,360 What's your pilot going to be about? 45 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,759 What's your inciting incident? Um in 46 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:44,400 Grays, it's Meredith finds out, there's 47 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,240 two things actually. Meredith finds out 48 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,399 that Derek Shepard, the guy she slept 49 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:50,079 with at the very beginning of the pilot, 50 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:51,840 is one of her bosses and one of her 51 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,079 doctors at her hospital. Um, and she's 52 00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:55,520 horrified because she's, you know, very 53 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:56,640 interested in being professional and 54 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,960 being a surgeon is her biggest hope. The 55 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,360 second thing that happens is, and it's a 56 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:02,799 smaller one because it goes with our B 57 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:06,240 story, George Eli tells a patient that 58 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:07,759 the patient's going to be fine. And he 59 00:02:07,759 --> 00:02:10,959 basically sort of gets under Burke, Dr. 60 00:02:10,959 --> 00:02:13,040 Burke's skin, and you realize, and Burke 61 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,319 is basically declares, "You're going to 62 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:17,040 be my guy." And you realize that George 63 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,440 is in trouble. So those two things have 64 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,599 happened. And once those two things have 65 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:24,239 happened, the pilot is on its path. You 66 00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:26,800 know, everything is set up set up. One 67 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,239 of the things I like to say to my 68 00:02:28,239 --> 00:02:31,040 writers when we're making scenes happen 69 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,680 is you have to think of the worst thing 70 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,760 that can happen to your characters, make 71 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,599 it happen, and then go from there. And I 72 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:40,720 don't necessarily mean always just the 73 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,319 worst, but I mean the most extreme. Like 74 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:44,560 what's what's your worst case scenario? 75 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,280 If George is going to tell a patient the 76 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,480 patient's going to be fine, well, the 77 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,920 worst case scenario is that the patient 78 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,000 dies on the table and George has to tell 79 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,239 the patient that the patient's family 80 00:02:54,239 --> 00:02:55,760 the patient died. 81 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,720 Um, George is doing an appendecttomy, 82 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,160 you know, he's forced to perform the 83 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,840 first surgery in front of everybody and 84 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,879 he basically freezes, humiliates himself 85 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:07,519 and is now declared 007, which means 86 00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:09,280 like licensed to kill in front of 87 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,200 everybody and is now the biggest loser 88 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,040 of the bunch. You know, you want to 89 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,720 figure out what's the most humiliating, 90 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,560 most painful way for somebody to have to 91 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,480 deal with something and then have them 92 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,800 go from there. Otherwise, you're sort of 93 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,159 doing a things are mild. You know, 94 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:26,400 things are kind of happening. They're 95 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,040 sort of interesting, but not really. And 96 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,200 even if you're doing the happier version 97 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,959 of that, what is the most interesting 98 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:37,840 way, the most exciting way, the most 99 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,440 conflicted way something great can 100 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,280 happen? or even just what is the best 101 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,959 way something can happen. But don't go 102 00:03:42,959 --> 00:03:46,319 for the eh story piece. 103 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:47,840 Like there's no reason for it. Like 104 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,920 every scene should be kind of the most 105 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,280 interesting you can come up with. 106 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:53,920 What? 107 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,599 Katie's parents have questions. Do you 108 00:03:55,599 --> 00:03:57,360 talk to them or do I ask Burke? 109 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,280 No. Burke's off the case. Katie belongs 110 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,040 to the new attending now, Dr. Shepherd. 111 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,319 He's over there. 112 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:08,760 All right. It's a nice confession. 113 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,760 48 hours. 114 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,079 So, act one, you have your inciting 115 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:19,199 incident. You've introduced your 116 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:21,120 characters. You've got your plot going. 117 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,199 Things are interesting. Act two, I 118 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:25,680 always say things get worse. No matter 119 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,199 what the show is about, things get worse 120 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:30,639 in some way. Um, in act two, we get to 121 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:32,560 know our characters better. We have them 122 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,560 all come together in a way that allows 123 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,560 them to meet one another. That doesn't 124 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:37,919 necessarily always happen in a lot of, 125 00:04:37,919 --> 00:04:39,520 you know, in everyone's pilot. This kind 126 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:40,880 of pilot, all the characters sort of 127 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,800 come together so that they can meet and 128 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,120 I establish where they're going to hang 129 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,360 out, which is for me the tunnels. 130 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,639 They're all going down there. They're 131 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:50,320 sitting on those gurnies and they're 132 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,759 talking about what life is like in the 133 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:54,160 hospital. That's that's sort of their 134 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,560 talking place. Katie Bryce has her 135 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,400 seizures and that's like things get 136 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,880 worse. George is picked to do the 137 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,199 surgery, the appendecttomy, and he fails 138 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:05,520 horribly. things get worse and that 139 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,840 happens right away. So, we're only two 140 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:09,680 acts in and he's already humiliated 141 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,840 himself and been called 007. Meredith 142 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:13,440 is, you know, sort of feeling a little 143 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,320 bit okay. She gets upstairs and Katie 144 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Bryce is seizing and she freezes and has 145 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,520 no idea what to do. Also, Derek won't 146 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,199 leave her alone. So, we've already 147 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:24,960 already had her encounter that guy and 148 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,240 he kind of won't leave her alone. 149 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,800 What took you so long? 150 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,919 She's having multiple grandma seizures. 151 00:05:39,919 --> 00:05:41,919 Now, how do you want to proceed? 152 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:45,199 Dr. Gray, are you listening to me? She's 153 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:46,800 gotten dasipam. 2 milligrams of 154 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,360 dazzipam. I just gave the second dose. 155 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,199 Dr. Gray, you need to tell us what you 156 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:55,120 want to do. Dr. Gray. 157 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,680 The end of act three. And and then you 158 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:58,880 get to act three. And so she goes 159 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,639 outside. She throws up. She gets in 160 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:03,600 trouble. But the end of act three, which 161 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,319 is sort of past our midpoint, which is 162 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:08,080 our midpoint, past our midpoint, sort of 163 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,520 right sits right in the center of your 164 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,759 show. She's feeling like a terrible 165 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:13,680 failure. George is feeling like a 166 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,440 terrible failure. Um, it's kind of great 167 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,280 because we kill George's patient 168 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:22,560 and it's not about, and it's 169 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:23,759 interesting, it's one of the first times 170 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:25,840 you see somebody get killed and it's not 171 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:28,080 about, oh my god, their poor family. 172 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,479 It's really about poor George. Like a 173 00:06:30,479 --> 00:06:33,039 patient dies on a table and we don't 174 00:06:33,039 --> 00:06:34,720 think, "Oh my god, that poor guy." Even 175 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,000 though we've met him, all we really 176 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,080 think is poor George. How's he going to 177 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,120 deal with this? 178 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,240 So, we watch poor George and they've got 179 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,240 this girl who now is in a worse medical 180 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,759 condition and Meredith doesn't know what 181 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:47,600 to do and everybody's worried about how 182 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:48,800 they're going to treat this girl and 183 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,160 it's really about Meredith feeling like 184 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,319 a failure as a doctor. They've been 185 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,720 yelled at. And I actually, which is 186 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,759 interesting, it's always good to have a 187 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:57,360 ticking clock at the end of act three. 188 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,360 Derek actually says the clock is 189 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:00,880 ticking, 190 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,319 which now when I look at it makes me 191 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:05,120 laugh, but he literally says the clock 192 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,120 is ticking. But you want to sort of set 193 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,039 in motion that things have to speed up 194 00:07:09,039 --> 00:07:10,720 and move forward. 195 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,080 I need you to find out why Katie is 196 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,080 having seizures. 197 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,360 I know you're tired, you're busy, you 198 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:16,639 got more work than you could possibly 199 00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:19,199 handle. I understand. So, I'm going to 200 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:22,000 give you an incentive. Whoever finds the 201 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,400 answer rides with me. Katy needs 202 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,840 surgery. 203 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:27,599 You get to do what no interns get to do. 204 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:29,199 Scrub in to assist on advanced 205 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:31,520 procedure. Dr. Bailey is going to hand 206 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,199 you Katie's chart. The clock is ticking 207 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:34,880 fast, people. If we're going to save 208 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,840 Kat's life, we have to do it soon. 209 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,720 So, in act four, you sort of watch 210 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,800 Meredith and Christina try really hard 211 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,120 to figure out how to solve the case. 212 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,880 It's my little procedural moment, 213 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,880 although they're basically mocking their 214 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,160 patient at that point. And that's really 215 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,599 all they do before they realize what's 216 00:07:55,599 --> 00:07:58,080 going on. But what you really see in 217 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,960 three and four is the next sort of level 218 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,960 of inciting incident. Meredith has 219 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,479 basically said, I'm at the beginning of 220 00:08:04,479 --> 00:08:05,919 the show, I'm too professional to want 221 00:08:05,919 --> 00:08:07,919 to be anywhere near a guy. 222 00:08:07,919 --> 00:08:10,639 Um, I'm sort of too good for this. Get 223 00:08:10,639 --> 00:08:12,080 away from me. She says it again in the 224 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,080 second act. She says it to him. In the 225 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,000 third act, she says basically, you know, 226 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,520 this isn't working for me. In act four, 227 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,240 she says, "If we figure out the surgery, 228 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,520 you can have it because I don't want to 229 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,759 be anywhere near him." Right. 230 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:26,560 Mhm. 231 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,720 They figure out the surgery and she 232 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,319 steals the surgery from Merida. I mean, 233 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:31,759 from Christina. When she's offered the 234 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,800 surgery, she takes it, which is a great 235 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,479 moment because it means that our 236 00:08:36,479 --> 00:08:39,440 character is not 100% good, 100% bad. It 237 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,039 makes her a little bit more interesting 238 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:42,399 than a show in which someone's just a 239 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:43,919 straight hero and always sort of doing 240 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,200 the right thing. Mhm. 241 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,880 And I did that on purpose because I 242 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,360 didn't want us to feel like what heroes 243 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:50,959 all of these people were. 244 00:08:50,959 --> 00:08:54,240 It felt very important to give somebody 245 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,399 a little something interesting. And I 246 00:08:56,399 --> 00:08:58,240 think in this day and age especially, 247 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,560 you don't need characters to all be 248 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:01,920 perfect and lovely. 249 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,519 Now, I think there's a push right now 250 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:05,120 for everybody to be as dark as humanly 251 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,240 possible. 252 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,399 Um, we're not all living in Game of 253 00:09:08,399 --> 00:09:09,839 Thrones, you know, like I don't think 254 00:09:09,839 --> 00:09:11,519 that that winter is not always coming 255 00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:14,959 for everyone. And while those things are 256 00:09:14,959 --> 00:09:16,720 so amazing, you just really have to 257 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,640 figure out what show you're telling. You 258 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,040 know, don't pick here's the trend and so 259 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,040 this is where I'm going. Just figure out 260 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,959 what feels right for you and how can you 261 00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:27,360 make it the most interesting. To me, 262 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,200 what felt like the worst case scenario 263 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,839 is they actually solve the case. 264 00:09:31,839 --> 00:09:33,760 Meredith gets picked for they they do 265 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,200 get picked for the surgery, but Dererick 266 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,600 picks the wrong person. And instead of 267 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,519 it being Meredith going, "Oh, no, not 268 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:41,440 me, Christina." She just takes it. 269 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,839 Right. Like that to me felt like much 270 00:09:43,839 --> 00:09:46,000 more complex than anything else 271 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,279 and it was going to cause the most 272 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:50,000 trouble. I discovered that moment in the 273 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,399 writing like while writing the scene. It 274 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:54,160 was not my plan. I didn't have a whole 275 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:55,600 plan for it. I just discovered it while 276 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,120 writing the scene as being like, "Ooh, 277 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,360 that's so much better than watching 278 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,440 these two have an argument for some 279 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,480 other superficial reason." And it also 280 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:05,839 highlighted the difference between 281 00:10:05,839 --> 00:10:08,560 somebody who came from a surgical family 282 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:10,240 and was kind of surgical royalty and 283 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,080 somebody who worked for it, right? 284 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,760 Which turns out to be a theme that I 285 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,680 like to write about for some reason. 286 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,839 Um, it's just in there. Privilege versus 287 00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:20,480 non-privilege. 288 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,079 I'll tell him I changed my mind. 289 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:23,440 You know, don't don't give don't do me 290 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,519 any favors. It's fine. 291 00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:26,079 Christina, 292 00:10:26,079 --> 00:10:27,120 you know what? You did a cutthroat 293 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,800 thing. Deal with it. Don't come to me 294 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,320 for absolution. You want to be a shark, 295 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,839 be a shark. 296 00:10:31,839 --> 00:10:34,320 I'm not. Oh, yes you are. Only it makes 297 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,000 you feel all bad in your warm, gooey 298 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,640 places. No, screw you. I don't get 299 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,240 picked for surgeries cuz I slept with my 300 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,600 boss and I didn't get into med school 301 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,800 cuz I have a famous mother. You know, 302 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:47,160 some of us have to earn what we get. 303 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,000 At the end of act four, what the other 304 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,360 thing that happens is that George gives 305 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,760 the bad news to the family and it's 306 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,760 devastating for him. And we sort of 307 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,600 watch him do the hardest thing he can 308 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,560 do, but also learn from it. So, it's 309 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,440 sort of a down moment for everybody. And 310 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,680 then in act five, everybody climbs back 311 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,920 out. Derek says, "Take the surgery. You 312 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,000 earned it. Take your thing." Meredith, 313 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,519 Christina have had their fight and 314 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:18,000 they've talked their way through it. Um, 315 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,800 George is sort of doing his best to pull 316 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,560 himself together. You're you're watching 317 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,320 our characters climb back up and then 318 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,399 you have the surgery. What's interesting 319 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,279 is is that nothing's really solved. 320 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:30,880 Christina I mean Meredith still stole 321 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:31,920 Christina's surgery. 322 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,200 Mhm. 323 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,079 George still is the worst surgeon there 324 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:37,920 as far as he's concerned. Nothing's 325 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,160 really gone well except Meredith has 326 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,640 seen an amazing surgery and has realized 327 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,800 that despite everything, it's worth it 328 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,279 to be there. So everything's sort of 329 00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:50,240 left open-ended and and we just sort of 330 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,880 walk away on that point. It's not a very 331 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,720 it's oddly not a very satisfying ending 332 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,680 in that sense until you get to the end 333 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,360 where when you realize that the reason 334 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,279 why she's so desperate to be a surgeon 335 00:12:01,279 --> 00:12:02,880 and desperate to be good at it is 336 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,160 because her mother, 337 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:05,360 you know, you then reveal that her 338 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:06,639 mother is in a nursing home and has 339 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:07,920 Alzheimer's and doesn't even remember 340 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,120 the fact that she used to be a surgeon 341 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:10,800 and it's the secret Meredith's keeping. 342 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,639 Yeah. So, everybody's been judging her 343 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:14,000 for having this surgeon mother and 344 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,440 getting everything she's ever wanted, 345 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,880 and her mother doesn't even know who she 346 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,040 is. 347 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,200 It's a It's a nice little structure, I 348 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,079 think. 349 00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:24,240 I think that the idea of revealing a 350 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,160 secret at the end of a pilot 351 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,399 has become a little little overdone at 352 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:29,360 this point, 353 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,279 but I do think knowing what your 354 00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:33,279 character secrets are before you start 355 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:34,160 writing, 356 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:35,200 even if you're not going to reveal them 357 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:36,320 in the pilot, 358 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,920 are helpful. It's helpful just because 359 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,000 it allows you to understand who your 360 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,360 characters are. 361 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,320 Um, 362 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,760 it just gives you a deeper sense of 363 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,839 them. And sometimes when you start to 364 00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:46,959 really think about what are my character 365 00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:49,120 secrets, what what don't other people 366 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:50,480 know about them, it allows you to come 367 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:51,920 up with more story points that you never 368 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,279 would have thought of before. 369 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:57,440 It adds extra twist twists and turns. 1 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,200 these twists, um, the mom reveal, uh, 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,559 Derek picking Meredith to work with 3 00:00:10,559 --> 00:00:13,360 them, George's patient dies. Do you kind 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,519 of put a mandatory like amount of twists 5 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:16,960 into that or do you think ahead of the 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:18,400 twist or do you just try to let them 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:19,920 come naturally when you're writing a 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,920 pilot or even writing any episode of the 9 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,600 show? I think the reason why I think 10 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,359 about act breaks is because it allows 11 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:27,279 you to think something big needs to 12 00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:30,320 happen every at the end of every act. 13 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,120 It allows you to to not get sort of 14 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,280 stale. It allows you to think I have to 15 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,200 be building towards some piece of story 16 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,800 turn um every act break. That way you're 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,760 not sort of staying steady, stable, 18 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,520 nothing's really going on. 19 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,680 And I've seen a lot of people try to 20 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:48,879 make something exciting happen at the 21 00:00:48,879 --> 00:00:50,480 end of an act just for excitement's 22 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:51,440 sake. Yeah. 23 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:52,960 And you can't do that. It has to 24 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,640 actually have been placed, planted, and 25 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,160 build from there. You need to plant 26 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,760 something and then pay it off. You can't 27 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,280 just have ooh um suddenly the hospital 28 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,439 explodes for no reason. You really need 29 00:01:05,439 --> 00:01:07,360 to plant things so that when these 30 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,159 things happen, we're watching character 31 00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:10,799 growth. 32 00:01:10,799 --> 00:01:11,280 Mhm. 33 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,040 And if it's built in character, you can 34 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,680 get away with almost anything. Trust me, 35 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,240 we have the hospital. But if you really 36 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,759 build it in character, if you make it 37 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:23,119 about character, we'll buy a lot of 38 00:01:23,119 --> 00:01:24,320 you'll buy a lot of goodwill and people 39 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:25,280 will buy anything. 40 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,200 Going back to the characters backtories 41 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,880 because, you know, we see Meredith's 42 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,880 secret at the end that her home life is 43 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,479 her mom has Alzheimer's, you know, and 44 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:34,320 she visits her in the nursing home. Do 45 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:35,840 you have an idea for the other 46 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,520 characters about what their home life is 47 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,920 when you write the pilot or? 48 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,560 So, for Grace, I really did for Grace I 49 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,320 did a lot of work. It was my first, it 50 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,079 was my sort of first time out doing this 51 00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:48,560 kind of thing and I really wanted to 52 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,240 know as much as I could. 53 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,040 And so for Grace, I knew who George was. 54 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,240 I knew that he came from this big 55 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,240 family. I knew that he was from Seattle. 56 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,000 Um, Christina, I knew that she was from 57 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Beverly Hills and I knew that she had um 58 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,040 her mother had married this guy and she 59 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,119 had a sister. Like I knew that Izzy was 60 00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:07,200 from a trailer park. I knew everything 61 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,280 about these people and I'd worked really 62 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,280 hard at it. I remember when Burke 63 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,480 finally says, "My mother owns a 64 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,319 restaurant in Alabama." It's a big line 65 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:17,520 for us in the on the show because I had 66 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,680 been walking around saying that for like 67 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,040 a year and a half 68 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,480 and people were like, "Why do you keep 69 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:23,840 saying that?" And I was like, "I don't 70 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:24,959 know. It's just very important. Burk's 71 00:02:24,959 --> 00:02:26,640 mother runs a restaurant in Alabama and 72 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,959 stuff like that." Those details were 73 00:02:28,959 --> 00:02:31,440 very important for me and they were very 74 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,519 internalized. I noticed when I was 75 00:02:33,519 --> 00:02:34,720 reading through the pilot of Grey's 76 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,800 Anatomy that there were several omitted 77 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,680 scenes and I was just curious what which 78 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,879 scenes do you find get cut the most? Is 79 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:46,000 it that kind of sort of backstory things 80 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,920 that feel needless once you start to go 81 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:50,400 into breaking the actual story? 82 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,319 H 83 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:53,840 and it might be different from Grey's 84 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:54,800 Anatomy from other ones. 85 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,879 Yeah. No, no. thinking I think in a lot 86 00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:58,959 of ways there are you're probably 87 00:02:58,959 --> 00:03:01,599 reading one of the more final drafts of 88 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:04,319 the the probably the re-shoot draft when 89 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:06,800 we inserted Alex draft because what ends 90 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,040 up getting cut from the pilot that you 91 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,480 view are things that feel like I always 92 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,040 realize sort of as you move along the 93 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,159 stuff that always ends up getting cut 94 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:18,400 from the show is generally in act one 95 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,280 and act two it's all the setup that you 96 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,720 think you desperately need 97 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,239 you think you need all of this stuff 98 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:26,159 that has to be told that needs to be in 99 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:27,519 there so that people understand what 100 00:03:27,519 --> 00:03:28,879 show you're doing and what it's about 101 00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:31,680 and what the world it's a ton of stuff 102 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,440 that generally even when you're in 103 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,799 seasons three and four when you're 104 00:03:34,799 --> 00:03:36,560 editing an episode you're like half of 105 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,920 act one doesn't need to exist and you 106 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:38,879 toss it 107 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:40,720 because people are the audience a is 108 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,400 smarter than you think you have to 109 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,080 always remember that visuals are far 110 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,640 stronger than words on a page so what 111 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,959 someone is looking at will always give 112 00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:50,879 convey 10 times more than what you've 113 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:53,360 written and you don't necessarily need 114 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,080 to explain every single thing to an 115 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,120 audience. 116 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,239 Now, I caution when I say that because 117 00:04:00,239 --> 00:04:01,439 then there are the people who don't 118 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:02,799 explain nearly enough 119 00:04:02,799 --> 00:04:03,840 and then they go, you don't have to 120 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,200 explain everything to an audience and 121 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,760 then nobody understands what's going on. 122 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,319 So, I'd rather you air on the side of 123 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:11,519 telling a little bit too much and then 124 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:13,280 going back and editing for yourself than 125 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,400 not. Mhm. 126 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,560 But there's a tendency to tell way too 127 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:19,519 much 128 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:24,400 in story and give way too much to um 129 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,240 away to the audience early. Like you 130 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:27,600 want them to know every single thing 131 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,720 about a character right away. And think 132 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,800 about the notion of a series. 133 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,520 You have at least 13 episodes in a first 134 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,680 season, maybe 10 135 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,680 for a short one to tell people who these 136 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,520 people are to unfold them for the 137 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,440 audience. You don't need to tell them 138 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,080 everything in the first episode. You 139 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,320 just need to tell them enough. 140 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,120 When you are going from having written 141 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,720 the pilot, breaking it with your 142 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,639 writers, and you're putting it together. 143 00:04:54,639 --> 00:04:57,360 Um, with Grey's Anatomy especially, it's 144 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,040 a very serious show. They're dealing 145 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,440 with very, you know, life-threatening 146 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,479 situations and the um the relationships 147 00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:06,560 are all very serious. But I loved how 148 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,720 your choice of music sometimes would be 149 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,479 dichomous to what was actually happening 150 00:05:10,479 --> 00:05:13,039 in the scene. And I was just curious, 151 00:05:13,039 --> 00:05:14,960 you know, where did that come from in 152 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,080 you? And at what point did did that 153 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,000 start to develop for you? 154 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,400 It really came in the pilot. I mean, 155 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,039 part of what happens in the pilot is 156 00:05:25,039 --> 00:05:28,880 these are people who don't quite care or 157 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,360 get that these are human beings on their 158 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,360 table. They're much more interested in 159 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,199 the science of the bodies on their table 160 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:37,520 than they are in the people on the 161 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,080 table. So, I wanted to find a way to 162 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,600 capture that. Like, for them, this is 163 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,440 about the adrenaline rush and the 164 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,199 excitement. It's not about whether or 165 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:48,560 not this human being lives or dies. And 166 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,479 there needed to be a way to capture that 167 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:52,320 because at a certain point in the show, 168 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,919 you always want to then find a way to 169 00:05:53,919 --> 00:05:56,400 remind them, no, these are human beings 170 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,240 who are living and dying because that's 171 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,880 part of the lesson. In people who 172 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,240 care a little bit too much about getting 173 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,759 to cut someone open, you have to 174 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:04,960 remember that you're cutting a person 175 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,319 open. That's someone's mother, someone's 176 00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:07,840 father, someone's kid. Yeah. 177 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:10,800 So, the music often to me helped really 178 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,199 highlight that. The music gave a way to 179 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:15,600 make the irreverence that they feel 180 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,160 towards these people's bodies um real. 181 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:19,680 It made it feel fun. It made it feel 182 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,479 exciting and kind of sexy, but then it 183 00:06:22,479 --> 00:06:25,120 also captured some of the wonder and 184 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,199 some of the pain of it. And so, the 185 00:06:27,199 --> 00:06:30,160 music was the music was really fun to 186 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,680 place. I mean, I think that was part of 187 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,000 it um in a lot of ways. It also made the 188 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,840 show feel very very different from other 189 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:38,240 shows because we didn't do musically 190 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,560 what other shows did. Plus, there is a 191 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,120 lot of humor in that in that pilot. I 192 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,440 mean, a lot of that pilot's very funny. 193 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,759 George provides a great deal of humor. 194 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:49,520 Um, and Derek and Meredith have a great 195 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,520 deal of sort of romantic comedy stuff 196 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,199 going on until things get serious. 197 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:58,240 So, I'm wondering what what started like 198 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,599 down this road for you? Were you trying 199 00:06:59,599 --> 00:07:01,360 to tell a story about hospital dynamics? 200 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:02,960 Was it like the first instance? with you 201 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,400 thinking about the character of Meredith 202 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:05,680 doesn't someone in like her mother's 203 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,599 shadow or where did where did this 204 00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:09,360 kernel of an idea even come from? 205 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,800 Ah that's a good question. Well you know 206 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,520 I had written one pilot prior to writing 207 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,039 Grays and it would had been about war 208 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:21,039 correspondents and it was about women 209 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:22,960 who and I this really was the germ of 210 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,039 the idea for war correspondents as well. 211 00:07:25,039 --> 00:07:27,520 It was about the fact that I loved the 212 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,759 concept of women who were really 213 00:07:29,759 --> 00:07:32,639 competitive, loved their job, sort of 214 00:07:32,639 --> 00:07:35,680 drank too hard and played too hard while 215 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,479 covering war. And that element of those 216 00:07:40,479 --> 00:07:41,680 kinds of women, those were the kind of 217 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,199 women I knew. Like these were women who 218 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:45,280 like they loved working probably more 219 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,840 than they loved anything else. Then we 220 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,319 went to war, so not such a great idea. 221 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:51,759 But then when I came back and thought I 222 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:53,680 want to write something else, applying 223 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,400 that same theory to surgery felt 224 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,840 completely right because surgery is a 225 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,360 lot like that. They work too hard. 226 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,039 They're there for ridiculous amounts of 227 00:08:01,039 --> 00:08:02,240 hours. They're always on their feet. 228 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,919 There's not enough women in the field. 229 00:08:03,919 --> 00:08:06,960 There's a battle for supremacy. It felt 230 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,360 really interesting to me to see a bunch 231 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,919 of women who were scientists who were as 232 00:08:11,919 --> 00:08:13,440 hardcore for science as these people 233 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:14,960 were for journalism. 234 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,400 And I just liked that feeling. like a 235 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,240 bunch of overly smart people fighting 236 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,120 for their space. That was really where 237 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,520 it came from. It didn't come from any 238 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,720 other spot but that and then you know 239 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,960 Bailey is the generation above them 240 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,560 fighting for that space in a world 241 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:35,039 that's completely male and then there's 242 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,039 more women on their level and then as 243 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:38,640 you watch there's definitely more women 244 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,479 below them. Mhm. 245 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:42,800 So, I'm wondering kind of where you saw 246 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,640 Meredith when you wrote it versus when 247 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,279 you brought the actress in, how Meredith 248 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:48,959 changed and how that informed the rest 249 00:08:48,959 --> 00:08:52,000 of your first season. 250 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,000 You know, it's interesting. I feel like 251 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,959 I feel like Meredith was definitely 252 00:08:58,959 --> 00:09:01,200 maybe, 253 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,240 and this is weird, louder 254 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,000 than um the Meredith I ended up having 255 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800 as a character. Ellen Pompeo, who plays 256 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,399 Meredith, has a a very like still, quiet 257 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:16,720 quality that conveyed. She conveys so 258 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,959 much with her eyes and her face in a way 259 00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:20,320 that was 260 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,480 beautiful and very unexpected. In a 261 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,040 weird way, Meredith had to say less 262 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,120 um in order to convey as much as she 263 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,399 did, which is really lucky considering 264 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:29,440 we have a show in which people wear 265 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:30,560 masks all the time. 266 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:31,920 I had not I had not even thought about 267 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,080 that. But what was also interesting is 268 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,080 that I'd written the pilot and kept 269 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,080 saying I I really want somebody like 270 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,839 that girl who was in Moonlight Mile. I 271 00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:40,720 really want somebody who's like that 272 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,399 girl in Moonlight Mile. That was Ellen 273 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:42,959 Pompeo. 274 00:09:42,959 --> 00:09:43,440 Yeah. 275 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,519 Um so in a weird way that was a person 276 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,120 who was in my head when I wrote the 277 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,680 pilot. So it made it very simple. 278 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:50,480 Cool. 279 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,560 More interesting was um Sandra O being 280 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,120 Christina Yang and Shandra Wilson being 281 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,600 Dr. Bailey because neither one of them 282 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,000 had anything to do with what I pictured. 283 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,440 um 284 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,040 really at all. And so to have Sandra O 285 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,279 inhabit the character of Christina Yang 286 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:10,959 completely changed what I had thought 287 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:12,640 that character was going to be in every 288 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,600 way, shape or form in the best way 289 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,399 possible. And she really did bring the 290 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:19,920 other half of that character to that 291 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,519 character. I mean 292 00:10:21,519 --> 00:10:22,800 I always say like the character was like 293 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,360 an uninflated balloon until she came in. 294 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,680 And Shandra Wilson, that character was 295 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:28,959 the only character in the script, I 296 00:10:28,959 --> 00:10:30,079 don't know if it's still in there, but 297 00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:32,320 you can see it. who had a a description 298 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,120 that involved how she looked. Um, she 299 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,279 was blonde with curly hair and like she 300 00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:40,399 looked like a sort of a cherub and 301 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:42,800 completely different Shandra Wilson who 302 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,880 came in and just killed it and had a 303 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,160 very different attitude. I thought there 304 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,320 was sort of a perky evilness to the 305 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,920 character and Shandra Wilson brought 306 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,480 like an exhausted anger to the character 307 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,880 that was kind of nononsense and lovely 308 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,720 and so that character became a very 309 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,880 different character. Suddenly, I 310 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,279 remember big like she collects Hmel 311 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:04,640 figures and she, you know, when we sort 312 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,399 of got to the episodes where we talk 313 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:10,160 about her being um called Mandy and 314 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,399 wearing cornrows and being a mumbler who 315 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:13,920 wears glasses and you start to see who 316 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,720 she was when she was younger, you begin 317 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,399 to understand that that character really 318 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,399 was built on the stuff that Shandra 319 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,959 brought, which was really interesting. 320 00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:25,120 The hospital is in Seattle and I was 321 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,959 just curious if you put a lot of thought 322 00:11:26,959 --> 00:11:28,720 into the setting or if it was just kind 323 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,440 of like you needed a big city or that 324 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,399 you picked. 325 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:34,240 Well, Seattle was interesting. We wanted 326 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,040 a big city. I'm from Chicago and so I 327 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,600 wanted it to be in Chicago, but 328 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,839 er was in Chicago. Chicago Hope was in 329 00:11:41,839 --> 00:11:44,160 Chicago. Like everything was in Chicago 330 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,720 at that time. And so getting something 331 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,240 that was in Chicago was not going to 332 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,519 happen. Everyone was like every hospital 333 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:53,760 is in Chicago. Um, New York felt too big 334 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,480 somehow and not replicatable. 335 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,200 Replicable. 336 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:57,680 Yeah. 337 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,839 Replicable. Not replicable in Los 338 00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:04,320 Angeles. Um, and Seattle felt fresh to 339 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,040 me. 340 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,200 It also, when I really thought about it, 341 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,320 New York felt wrong, Boston felt wrong. 342 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,160 Seattle felt like a city that I hadn't 343 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,320 seen on television a lot. And it felt 344 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,000 young and it felt new. And given now 345 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,160 thinking about the tech stuff that's 346 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,560 going on, it felt like, oh, you know, 347 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:24,399 like there's new stuff happening there. 348 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:25,920 Business is moving there, things are 349 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,320 going on up there. And so it was kind of 350 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,959 fun to think of that as a place where we 351 00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:32,240 could do something. 352 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,480 And it turned out to be perfect 353 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,079 because it did allow for this ferryboat 354 00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:39,360 obsession that I began to have when we 355 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,440 made the pilot. Um, but this idea that 356 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,880 there are woods and there's a city and 357 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,120 it was beautiful and it had every 358 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,040 element that we kind of needed to make a 359 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,040 place feel particular and special and 360 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,760 grounded in place. The one thing I was I 361 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,160 wanted to talk about which I thought was 362 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:55,440 interesting to note when you're making a 363 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,880 pilot is you really do need to think 364 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,040 about setting. And I don't mean setting 365 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,880 in terms of location, what city, and 366 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,720 being in Seattle or anything like that, 367 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,720 but setting. You know, when we opened 368 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,160 the Pilot of Grays, we're in Meredith's 369 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,639 home, her mother's home. And one of the 370 00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:12,720 reasons why I set that there, you know, 371 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,240 there was there were a lot of drafts of 372 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:15,760 the pilot in which she was in a hotel 373 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:16,560 room. 374 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,480 Um, she's in a hotel room forever. And 375 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,720 then it became really clear to me that I 376 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,480 needed to do something different because 377 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,160 I needed to ground her in who she is. 378 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,079 setting that scene and setting all of 379 00:13:28,079 --> 00:13:31,920 that in her house um began to be about 380 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,839 setting it in her like in in the burden 381 00:13:35,839 --> 00:13:38,240 of who she is, of where she comes from, 382 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,480 of her mother's memories, of all of that 383 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,040 stuff. I I don't know if you if you 384 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,560 watch the pilot really carefully, there 385 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,079 are post-it notes everywhere that her 386 00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:47,680 mother is kind of stuck to remember who 387 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:48,560 she is. 388 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:51,279 There's little things like that. And 389 00:13:51,279 --> 00:13:54,639 that placement really began to be about 390 00:13:54,639 --> 00:13:57,279 who this character was, the O. So you go 391 00:13:57,279 --> 00:13:59,199 from there to, you know, the city to the 392 00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:01,199 O so that you're really paying attention 393 00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:03,199 to what the show is about as opposed to, 394 00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:05,760 you know, sometimes people write pilots 395 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,040 and it takes them forever. It would take 396 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,199 them forever to get to the O or forever 397 00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:11,519 to get to something that seems or looks 398 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:14,240 like where our character um should be or 399 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,000 who our character is. You have to think 400 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,560 about your first 10 pages being all 401 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,639 about who is my character? How do I 402 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:22,240 reveal my character as best as I 403 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,639 possibly can? And using place is a great 404 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:27,279 way to do it. 405 00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:27,680 That's all. 406 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,959 I love that. Thank you. 1 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:09,440 So, we're talking about the um script of 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,599 Scandal, the pilot script of Scandal. 3 00:00:11,599 --> 00:00:13,440 And one of the things I always think is 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,360 helpful for anybody who's thinking about 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,039 writing a pilot script is to take a 6 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:19,520 pilot that you know well, um, for me it 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,279 was the Westwing script, 8 00:00:21,279 --> 00:00:23,439 uh, and break it down and figure out 9 00:00:23,439 --> 00:00:26,400 sort of what the beats of it were and 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,160 just examine it and sort of you sort of 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,000 dissect it. So then you can understand 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,079 how it was made in a lot of ways, how it 13 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:33,440 was put together. And it's something 14 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,719 that it's sort of reverse unwriting a 15 00:00:36,719 --> 00:00:38,559 script in a weird way. And it helps you 16 00:00:38,559 --> 00:00:39,680 when you're trying to figure out how to 17 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:40,879 write your own script because then you 18 00:00:40,879 --> 00:00:42,800 can sort of see why things happened the 19 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,320 way they did and how something was 20 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:45,840 built. It's almost like taking a house 21 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,360 apart piece by piece to see how they put 22 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,760 it together. Um, and so I thought we 23 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,200 would do that with the scandal pilot 24 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,360 because I thought that would make for a 25 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,199 nice example of how things are done 26 00:00:55,199 --> 00:00:58,320 because I know how it was done. 27 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,320 Um, so looking at it, you know, 28 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,879 interestingly enough, if you look at the 29 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,040 we have a board here and I think using a 30 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,400 board is always the best way to do this 31 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,720 because it's a nice big visual and it 32 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,640 helps you. So we divide it into five 33 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,040 sections and each section represents an 34 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,640 act of the script by acts and you sort 35 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,920 of write each one of your beats sort of 36 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,560 going down. Who's going to write on the 37 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:23,520 board? 38 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,159 I do. 39 00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:27,880 Perfect. Let's do it. 40 00:01:28,159 --> 00:01:30,000 We only really have this story really 41 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,560 only has it has three story lines, I 42 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:33,600 suppose. 43 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,040 So, we'll give three each of the story 44 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,880 lines a color. Okay. 45 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,200 Does anybody Does anybody know what the 46 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,799 three story lines are? But really, do 47 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:42,159 you when you look at it, what what do 48 00:01:42,159 --> 00:01:43,280 you think the three story lines really 49 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,360 are? The threads of the stories are. 50 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,360 Well, I think there's the story line 51 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,600 with Amanda, 52 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,520 um, finding out about Amanda, which then 53 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,399 leads into the story line and the reveal 54 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,560 of Olivia's relationship with the 55 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,520 president. 56 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:58,079 That's one. 57 00:01:58,079 --> 00:01:58,880 That's one. 58 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,479 And then I would say the other one is 59 00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:02,399 probably the Sully, the Captain Sully 60 00:02:02,399 --> 00:02:04,880 storyline, which is Olivia and her team 61 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,360 investigating or rather trying to handle 62 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,679 his issue um, as far as what happened 63 00:02:09,679 --> 00:02:12,160 with his crime that was committed. 64 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,959 Yes. And I feel like more of a sea story 65 00:02:14,959 --> 00:02:17,920 would be Stephen proposing to Georgia. 66 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:20,000 Yeah. I really always say the sea story 67 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,040 is is life at the shop in a weird way. 68 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,599 Um which is sort of Quinn's entry into 69 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:27,200 the world, how Quinn feels about the 70 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,200 world, the Steven stuff, the fact that 71 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,360 Abby sort of has feelings for him, those 72 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,319 small beats. 73 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:33,920 So those are exactly right. 74 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,840 So let's give each one a color. You can 75 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,200 choose whichever color makes you happy. 76 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,840 Oh, perfect. Um, 77 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,400 interestingly enough, act one only has 78 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,560 three scenes in it. Really, if you look 79 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,160 at, if you think about the scene that 80 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,040 takes place inside Olivia Pope and 81 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,840 Associates, which we call OPA, um, it's 82 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,360 just sort of one big flowing scene. The 83 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,160 camera never stops moving. 84 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,319 Okay. So, looking at this, you know, you 85 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:02,640 have the opening scene, which I feel 86 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:04,959 like, oddly enough, while you're meeting 87 00:03:04,959 --> 00:03:07,280 Harrison and Quinn is the introduction 88 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,400 of Olivia Pope. 89 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,200 Yes. 90 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,720 Uh, and it's, you know, Harrison and 91 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,000 Quinn are sitting there talking about 92 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,400 this mythic figure, Olivia Pope. And so, 93 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,720 that's that's the first beat. You know, 94 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,640 Harrison and Quinn discuss Olivia Pope. 95 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,879 So then was Quinn a character you 96 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:24,239 created when you realized you really 97 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:25,920 needed someone new or was she always a 98 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:27,360 character in your mind and you chose her 99 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,319 to be a newcomer? 100 00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:30,239 Quinn was not always a character I had. 101 00:03:30,239 --> 00:03:32,879 Quinn became vitally important when I 102 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:35,200 decided I needed somebody to be our way 103 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,760 into the world. She was interestingly 104 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,680 enough you know Quinn is the audience 105 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,280 and if you watch the pilot or you're 106 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,640 reading the script you realize that 107 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,640 she's asking a ton of questions. 108 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,560 Yeah. And it's funny, I, you know, I 109 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,080 rewatched it this morning because I was 110 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,360 like, I want to be able to explain this 111 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,000 perfectly, but re-watching it, I mean, 112 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,720 she truly is leading you on, you know, 113 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 through a journey by asking like, 114 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,239 you don't have clients. Yeah. 115 00:03:58,239 --> 00:04:00,159 Does anybody go home? Does anyone have a 116 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:02,000 personal life? You don't solve cases, 117 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:03,519 you know, like sort of the way she asks 118 00:04:03,519 --> 00:04:04,799 all the questions 119 00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:07,760 is very clear. Is Olivia a good guy or a 120 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:08,720 bad guy? 121 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,319 Why does she have me here? All the 122 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:13,040 questions she asks really affect the 123 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 audience and make us understand who who 124 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,799 Olivia is, who Quinn is, who the world 125 00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:19,040 is, what the world is. 126 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:19,680 It helps. 127 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:20,400 Totally. 128 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,000 When you introduce a character this way, 129 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,160 because honestly, the best way to meet 130 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,240 somebody is in action. 131 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,160 You know, usually you'd meet somebody 132 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,240 and they'd be, you know, jumping off the 133 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,360 side of a building or whatever it is 134 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,360 they do and it has to be sort of a big 135 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,520 entrance. But when you do this, when you 136 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,440 make somebody seem larger than life by 137 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,199 having everybody talk about them, when 138 00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:41,520 they show up, they better be amazing. So 139 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:42,720 you have to see them doing something 140 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,479 that feels really big. 141 00:04:44,479 --> 00:04:46,880 Next scene you see is Olivia Pope. You 142 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,960 meet Olivia Pope, you see her in person, 143 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,479 and you see her in action, 144 00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:52,560 which is in red, too. 145 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,240 Now, seeing her in action, you see that 146 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,880 she's in the middle of sort of dealing 147 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,199 with this big situation. 148 00:04:59,199 --> 00:05:01,919 So, you know, looking at meeting Olivia 149 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:04,560 Pope, you're in that elevator. you get 150 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,880 this great dynamic between she and 151 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,840 Stephen. One of the things I love about 152 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:12,000 um the way the pilot lays out and one of 153 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,840 the things I feel like I learned to do 154 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,759 was to because it's a workplace drama 155 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:17,199 and because you have so much that you 156 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:19,520 have to get out at the same time is I 157 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,759 always try to interlace something 158 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:23,440 personal the stuff the information you 159 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,680 need to know I want it to happen at 160 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,000 work. So if you notice Olivia is talking 161 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,759 about you know his personal life. Why 162 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:30,960 haven't you proposed? What's going on 163 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,720 with your girlfriend? why, you know, why 164 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,800 are you scared to ask her to marry you? 165 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,240 While at the same time, Steven's talking 166 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,680 about the fact that they're $3 million 167 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:38,880 short and they're going to get killed 168 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,479 and why isn't she paying attention to 169 00:05:40,479 --> 00:05:42,880 that? It's a great way of sort of 170 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,400 getting all the personal information out 171 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:45,680 and having these sort of side 172 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,000 conversations that need to be had while 173 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,759 also, you know, forwarding the work 174 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:51,759 story. It tells you a lot, too. It tells 175 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:53,120 you that she is calm, cool, and 176 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,440 collected. He is scared. She's in 177 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,759 charge. He is not. And it gives you a 178 00:05:57,759 --> 00:05:59,520 sense of power. Who has power and who 179 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,360 doesn't? And I think those things are 180 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,039 very important when you're first meeting 181 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:05,120 a character. You needed you need a way 182 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,720 to establish who's the more powerful 183 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,199 person in the room, how they are sort of 184 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:12,560 perceived by everyone um and what their 185 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,880 mindset is and attitude. It really does 186 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,039 help you sort of understand who they are 187 00:06:17,039 --> 00:06:18,319 a little bit. You don't know anything 188 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:20,800 about her right now. In the first scene, 189 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,319 all you've heard is you're going to love 190 00:06:22,319 --> 00:06:23,919 working for Olivia Pope. She's mythic 191 00:06:23,919 --> 00:06:26,240 and amazing. And now she cares about her 192 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,560 friend getting engaged. and she's very 193 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:29,680 cool about the fact that they're $3 194 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,160 million short. Then she goes into that 195 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,479 room with those, you know, two guys, 196 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:37,919 Vlad and Oscar, and she sort of explains 197 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:39,600 to them why they're going to give her 198 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,600 this box even though it's $3 million 199 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,759 short. And she's very calm about that. 200 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:45,360 She threatens them in a way that feels 201 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240 very um smart because she's clearly used 202 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,000 her connections to do something. Picks 203 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,880 up the box and they go. It's really 204 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,880 simple. The first version of that scene 205 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,199 I wrote, um, Vlad and Oscar were holding 206 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:59,680 guns on them or on one another and she 207 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,160 sort of talks them through it and sort 208 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,080 of diffuses the situation. 209 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,560 I think I liked the second version much 210 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,199 better simply because it became about 211 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:11,520 Olivia's negotiation skills and about 212 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,120 her ability to um, sort of use her 213 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,039 connections to solve a problem. And it's 214 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:18,560 very, you know, she's short, sweet, she 215 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:19,680 walks in, she goes. 216 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:20,639 Yeah. 217 00:07:20,639 --> 00:07:22,080 So that's sort of our second scene. You 218 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,680 meet Olivia Pope. immediately pope in 219 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,319 action and I sort of take the elevator 220 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:29,120 and the the sort of warehouse room and I 221 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,039 put them sort of as like subsets of that 222 00:07:33,039 --> 00:07:35,599 because it's kind of one thing. 223 00:07:35,599 --> 00:07:37,599 And what was the decision to make like 224 00:07:37,599 --> 00:07:40,160 Oscar and Glad or Vlad? It's a very one 225 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,039 closeended situation. Um, and what was 226 00:07:43,039 --> 00:07:44,960 the decision decision to do that instead 227 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,800 of like, you know, bringing in the sole 228 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,560 story there and introducing Olivia with 229 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,120 the main 230 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:49,680 interesting 231 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,479 case? Um because I knew that the main 232 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:54,879 case was going to be fairly serious. 233 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:56,160 I wanted something that we could have 234 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,680 fun with in the beginning. You know, you 235 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,160 can't really have fun with Sully in the 236 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:01,199 beginning. It's 237 00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:02,720 it's a really serious case. He's a guy 238 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:03,919 who's been accused of murder and you 239 00:08:03,919 --> 00:08:05,440 want to love him and you want to have 240 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,360 compassion for him. You couldn't sort of 241 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,360 mock him in the beginning and I wanted a 242 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,520 case that felt lighter. 243 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,840 It also tells the audience that we're 244 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,000 going to have light, fun cases down the 245 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,080 line. You're seeing a serious story, but 246 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,680 they're not all going to be serious. M. 247 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,080 So, it gives a sense of there will be 248 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:23,360 different tones, 249 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,199 which I thought was important as well. 250 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:28,319 And I didn't want to go super wacky, but 251 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:30,720 I did want people to know there's a 252 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,560 certain lightness to this that can 253 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:33,440 exist. 254 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,120 One of the things that you find out very 255 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,919 quickly is she solves cases. Like, she's 256 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:38,719 very 257 00:08:38,719 --> 00:08:40,560 she does what she needs to do and she 258 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:42,399 does it swiftly. The other moment that I 259 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:43,919 like is when we get to the next scene 260 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,760 when you see her and she sort of you 261 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,120 discover there's a baby in the box and 262 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,800 she hands the baby back and she says, 263 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,720 "Don't let the FBI know." 264 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,240 You understand that she works under the 265 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,040 radar. 266 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,640 It's one of those things. 267 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,600 So then we go to you sort of meet the 268 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,200 gang, the introduction into the world. 269 00:08:59,200 --> 00:08:59,680 Mhm. 270 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:02,640 So now Oliv um Quinn and Harrison are 271 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,720 walking into OPA and there's sort of 272 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,279 that long walk down that hallway and 273 00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:09,839 Harrison basically makes it clear that 274 00:09:09,839 --> 00:09:12,480 he knows that he's a part of the gang. 275 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,000 He says she's going to tell you that 276 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,760 you're showing too much cleavage, you 277 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,399 know, but it's going to be okay. And she 278 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:19,760 walks into the room and the first thing 279 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,680 Olivia says is too much cleavage. 280 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,200 And I did that purposely because I 281 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,720 wanted it to be clear that like they're 282 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,959 very tightly mixed. They're they're a 283 00:09:26,959 --> 00:09:27,760 team 284 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,680 and Quinn's the outsider. 285 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:31,519 So, you have that moment and then they 286 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:33,279 then Quinn makes the stumble of saying, 287 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:34,720 "I'm excited about working for the law 288 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,279 firm." And then they tell her what they 289 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:37,760 do. 290 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,399 Yeah. 291 00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:41,760 Very simply, I think three lines. 292 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,360 Then the case is solved because they 293 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,519 give the baby back, which is one more 294 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,040 way in which they explain what they do. 295 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,760 I tried to come up with as many 296 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,440 short interesting ways to explain what 297 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,440 they do in that scene because you don't 298 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,160 have a lot of time. 299 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,880 Quinn asks all the right questions 300 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,440 and she is us in that world. And you 301 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,640 have to think about it like that. You 302 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:03,920 have to think if I were entering that 303 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,600 world for the first time, what would I 304 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,480 want to know? 305 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,000 And even if you're not using a character 306 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,600 to do that, you should be thinking that 307 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,880 for your audience. 308 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,640 Where is my audience now? What are they 309 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,320 thinking? What are they feeling? What do 310 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,720 they need to know in order to understand 311 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,640 what's going on? It doesn't have to be 312 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,800 everything explained all at once, but in 313 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:21,920 order to understand what's going on, 314 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,600 what do they need to know? 315 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,160 And one of the things I think I'm proud 316 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,000 of the way it worked is they're sort of 317 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,839 having a light fun thing and she pops 318 00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:31,680 she pulls a baby out of the box. 319 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,279 That is because I have a theory that you 320 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:35,200 have to have a baby in every pilot. 321 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,959 I'm not joking. 322 00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:38,880 Um I I seriously have a theory that 323 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,480 babies are good for pilots. And I don't 324 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,399 know why, but every pilot that has a 325 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:44,800 baby in it always works. You just have 326 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,560 to watch pilots and you'll see there's 327 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,480 something about baby face in pilot that 328 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,880 that somehow works for America. I've yet 329 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,880 to figure it out. put in the baby. 330 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,480 The needle just ticks up. 331 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,000 But there's a joke that like we're 332 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,120 always like, "You got to have a baby. 333 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:58,399 Where's the baby?" And I was like, 334 00:10:58,399 --> 00:10:59,760 "Well, fine. We'll find a way to put a 335 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,399 baby in the pilot." 336 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:00,880 Fun in there. 337 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,480 Put it in. 338 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,640 It's a joke, but it's true. I mean, it 339 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,560 go look at pilots. 340 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:09,200 So, everything, you know, comes through 341 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,880 and everything feels a little bit light 342 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,320 and a little bit fun and the world is 343 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:13,600 fast-paced and you have, you know, she 344 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,120 pulls a baby out of the box and you're 345 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,760 sort of like, these people are are kind 346 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,160 of crazy, but it feels a little bit fun. 347 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,160 And then a man walks through the door 348 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,040 covered in blood and he's limping and it 349 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,519 suddenly turns very very serious very 350 00:11:27,519 --> 00:11:28,320 fast. Yeah. 351 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,480 And they all turn very serious very fast 352 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,640 and very professional very fast. And you 353 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,880 get a sense that as light and fun as 354 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,680 things can be, they know their job. 355 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,200 And there's this what I love is there's 356 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,120 a great moment when um Columbus Harrison 357 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,279 whips out his phone, takes a photo of 358 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:47,040 that guy, and then just says, "Welcome 359 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,959 to Olivia Pope and Associates." But it's 360 00:11:48,959 --> 00:11:50,240 the sort of the whipping out the phone 361 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,200 and taking the photo which that act sort 362 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,440 of makes you understand that they know 363 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,000 their job. 364 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,680 And that's the end of act one. It's very 365 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:03,279 simple. So case is solved and then the 366 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:06,160 entrance of the real case. 367 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,720 Things get serious. 368 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,360 We've got incoming. It's after hours. 369 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,959 Take a message. We're going home. 370 00:12:14,959 --> 00:12:17,040 Not on the phone. Here. You want to talk 371 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,760 to him? 372 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:28,240 You have to help me. Somebody has to 373 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,560 help me. Please. My girlfriend. 374 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,200 She's dead. 375 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,160 Please think I killed her. 376 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,680 Welcome to Olivia Pulp and Associates. 377 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,880 Now, what I always do with these beats 378 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,079 when you're making, you know, when 379 00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:51,120 you're putting things on the board and 380 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,440 and making this happen is I take these 381 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,560 these moments and I um use them to then 382 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,160 build and decide what my scenes are 383 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,760 going to be. You know, you sort of start 384 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,680 to build them out. You say, "So, the 385 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:07,120 entrance of the real case is coming. 386 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,959 Well, what does that mean? How is that 387 00:13:08,959 --> 00:13:09,760 going to work? 388 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:10,800 How are we going to introduce that 389 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:11,920 character? What's the world going to 390 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,680 be?" But you know those are the things 391 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,680 that sort of need to happen in the first 392 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,240 act. You know that you need to have like 393 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,760 a mythic like I knew I wanted to have a 394 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,360 mythic discussion of Olivia Pope. I need 395 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,120 wanted to meet Olivia Pope in action. I 396 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,320 needed to introduce the world and meet 397 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,600 the gang and see her solve something 398 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,360 quickly. And then I needed to introduce 399 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,000 the real case. And so that's just a very 400 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000 clear line of what needs to happen in 401 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:32,880 act one. 402 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,040 Why did you choose not to introduce the 403 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,720 White House storyline in act one since 404 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:37,920 it seems like it's a big part of 405 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,440 Olivia's character? Um, the reason I 406 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,880 decided not to introduce Well, there's 407 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,680 one thing. There's a tiny tiny mention 408 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:48,079 of the White House in the moment when 409 00:13:48,079 --> 00:13:50,000 Quinn is standing there with the gang of 410 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,240 people. She says, you know, I'm a fan of 411 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,680 yours since you were at the White House 412 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:56,000 or something like that and it's one tiny 413 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:56,880 mention 414 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,480 and it's purposeful. 415 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,279 I really didn't want this to feel like 416 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,839 it was a story about that. and you you 417 00:14:03,839 --> 00:14:05,120 want to feel like you're in the you're 418 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,800 outside of that world so that when it 419 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,920 starts to creep in, you sort of are 420 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240 intrigued and then it becomes really 421 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,920 really invasive. 422 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,760 By the end, you're like, "Oh, it's going 423 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,360 to be a fullscale war with the White 424 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,079 House 425 00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:20,320 and that's awesome, but you don't want 426 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,600 that to be the only thing." 427 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:22,480 Yeah. 428 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,639 I also wanted people to want to watch it 429 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:25,920 because they wanted to watch it, not 430 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:26,880 because we were going to tell a White 431 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:27,760 House story, 432 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,600 right? And and calculatedly at the time, 433 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,199 no, like I said, nobody was looking for 434 00:14:33,199 --> 00:14:35,279 political stories and they really there 435 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,519 was an I a feeling that having a 436 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:40,079 political show wasn't going to work. 437 00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:44,279 And I thought, well, we'll sneak it in. 1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:11,120 act two. Now we have basically the 2 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:15,000 presentation of the facts. 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,440 And by that I mean that's and that's 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,080 Sully, but it's also intermingled with 5 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:22,080 the 6 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,960 the definition of how the world works at 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,800 the same time because every single time 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,519 we talk about Sully, we also then have 9 00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Quinn asking questions that tell us more 10 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:33,440 about how the world works. 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,440 And in presenting all the facts, you see 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,000 how the world works, you know, and I, 13 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,600 you know, those scenes are, you know, 14 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Abby tells us, you realize that Abby is 15 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,520 a person who gives you the facts. She 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:44,960 has opinions about people that aren't 17 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,640 necessarily, you know, things that 18 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,239 you're supposed to say. 19 00:00:48,239 --> 00:00:50,160 And then Olivia starts to explain to 20 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:52,000 Quinn what they do 21 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,600 at the same time by saying like, "We 22 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,360 listen, we talk, we make a decision." 23 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,280 Like, she literally explains how this 24 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,600 goes down by explaining it to Quinn 25 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,120 and they vote and you realize that the 26 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,320 vote doesn't really matter because 27 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,920 Olivia once again establishes the fact 28 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,519 that she's in charge. 29 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,159 Um, they take his phone. All of those 30 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:10,000 things happen. 31 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,640 They get the war room. all all those 32 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:13,600 things happen. 33 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,119 Then they go out on their investigation. 34 00:01:17,119 --> 00:01:20,000 Um in the film version of the pilot, 35 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,080 they um you see Olivia go first to David 36 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,400 Rosen's house and then you see Abby go 37 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,759 to the cop's house, but in the script I 38 00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:29,280 did it the other way around and I can't 39 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,680 remember why and I don't remember why it 40 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,360 worked better when I was editing, but it 41 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:34,880 just happened that way. You then you see 42 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,200 them out on the investigative road, I 43 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,159 would say. 44 00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:43,200 And that's that's still in a weird way 45 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,560 it's still part of how it works, but 46 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,159 it's it it's a little bit larger than 47 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:48,560 that. So, you know, you see Abby at work 48 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,000 doing what she does, 49 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 you know, out investigating. You see 50 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,399 Olivia out doing what she does, and we 51 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,880 introduce a character, the a state is he 52 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,960 the he's a district attorney at that 53 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,880 point. 54 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,000 Was it hard to find distinct roles for 55 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,759 each of the characters to fill within an 56 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:07,520 investigation? 57 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,920 No. What was interesting was it made it 58 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:13,200 possible for me to decide what I needed 59 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,400 in the show. 60 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,879 So, I knew I needed an investigator. I 61 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:19,120 knew I needed somebody who could be an 62 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,280 actual lawyer in court if we needed it. 63 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,840 Um, Harrison was sort of our flashy guy. 64 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,599 Steven was kind of her partner, like 65 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:27,040 they were going to be partners in crime. 66 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,640 They went out together. He might be the 67 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:30,000 kind of the muscle if they needed it, 68 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,280 but not really. 69 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,000 Um, and Huck was that guy who hacked and 70 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,440 put things together and carried, you 71 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:36,720 know, fixed the guns and all of that 72 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,879 stuff. So, everyone had a role except 73 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:41,200 for Quinn, who we made get coffee for an 74 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,599 entire year, which was purposeful as 75 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,239 well. Um, so out of the investigative 76 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:47,920 road, you know, we go see David Rosen, 77 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:49,440 we go see the body. You're still 78 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,920 learning more about the case. David 79 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:53,760 Rosen was not supposed to be a series 80 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,040 regular. He was once again just a a 81 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,480 character to fill out our world and make 82 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,640 us understand what was going on. But he 83 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:03,519 also was in fact our villain. He wants 84 00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:05,440 to put Sully in jail. But once again, 85 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,680 you really establish the respect that he 86 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,599 has for Olivia. So you can tell that 87 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:11,200 they're even though they're 88 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,360 at odds, 89 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,200 you get that relationship real fast. 90 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,640 You understand that he's the, you know, 91 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,319 that he's an adversary, but he considers 92 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,080 her a worthy adversary. Yeah. 93 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,680 And that they um because they spar back 94 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,040 and forth, you understand they have a 95 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,000 history. Mhm. 96 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,680 One of my pet peeves when I'm reading 97 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,440 people's scripts is they have people who 98 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,280 clearly have known each other forever 99 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,200 speak about things as if they're just 100 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,640 speaking about them for the first time. 101 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:36,239 Yeah. You know, a couple who clearly 102 00:03:36,239 --> 00:03:38,000 spent the entire night sleeping next to 103 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,239 one another will then get up and the 104 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:41,599 first time you see them for that day, 105 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:44,080 they'll be talking about something as if 106 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,360 they hadn't been talking about it all 107 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,560 night or all morning 108 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:47,360 or for 20 years 109 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,360 or for 20 years. Right? You want to feel 110 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,680 like if somebody knows somebody, you 111 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,200 want to feel their familiarity in the 112 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,480 way they speak and relate to one 113 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,640 another. So, you know, here I wanted to 114 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,080 establish the fact that he's sick of 115 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,439 her. You know, they've been doing this 116 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,280 forever and he's sick of it. And it 117 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:01,840 helps. 118 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,000 Do you have any dialogue tricks that you 119 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,319 kind of use to that end? 120 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,159 I don't, but I I think it's about 121 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:09,599 thinking about how you talk to people 122 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:12,400 that you've known forever. Don't provide 123 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,319 me with exposition that you wouldn't 124 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:15,840 provide a person you already know with, 125 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,440 right? And you have to think about how 126 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:18,959 am I going to get this information out 127 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,840 without um sounding like I'm announcing 128 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:24,880 a fact that's completely new to someone. 129 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,560 You already know them. They already know 130 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,800 you. And if you sometimes I think it's 131 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,400 best to almost pretend you're coming in 132 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,240 on the middle of a conversation. 133 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:32,960 It's helpful. 134 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,240 Yeah, makes sense. 135 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,479 Uh so after we meet our villain, then we 136 00:04:36,479 --> 00:04:38,560 come back to OPA. No. Well, there's a 137 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,080 little coming back to OPA, but we also 138 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,160 see out on the investigative road, you 139 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,000 know, it's Abby, it's it's Liv, it's 140 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,639 Steven going to see um the coroner. Once 141 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:47,680 again, you get a little personal 142 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,759 information in. He's he lies and says 143 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:51,360 he's getting married even though we all 144 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,880 know he's not. You understand that he's 145 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,720 a little bit of a [ __ ] It's kind of 146 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,440 great. Um and then we're we're still 147 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,840 going back and seeing Quinn and Harrison 148 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,600 at OPA. She's continuing to ask 149 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,120 questions and telling us how our world 150 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,520 works, right? You guys don't try cases. 151 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,840 You don't go to court. all those things. 152 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:09,680 And it goes on, I want to say like 153 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,400 almost the entire act. Finally, they get 154 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,240 to the end of that investigative part. 155 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,440 And when they get to the end of that 156 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,280 investigative part, they stand there and 157 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:19,280 they stare at the board and you feel 158 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:21,840 like you you realize a couple of things. 159 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,360 One, we've established how we build our 160 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,360 cases. We fill up the window with as 161 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,199 many pictures as possible. And that is 162 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:28,400 our case. 163 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,520 That's how we're going to look at our 164 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:30,800 cases every week. 165 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,280 That's our device. And that device 166 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:35,840 really is useful to us because it tells 167 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,240 the audience this is our, you know, this 168 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:38,880 is our world. 169 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,320 Yeah. 170 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:41,440 They stand there, they look at the 171 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,680 board, and Olivia says, "We need more." 172 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,360 And you understand that she still thinks 173 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,039 they think the guy is innocent. I mean, 174 00:05:47,039 --> 00:05:48,560 guilty and she still thinks the guy is 175 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:49,759 innocent. 176 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:52,240 Then she gets the phone call and you're 177 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,479 not clear on why she's walking away and 178 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:57,039 leaving them to do work. But really, 179 00:05:57,039 --> 00:05:59,199 we're introducing our B story. 180 00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:00,080 Right. Mhm. 181 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,080 Question about the a case with solely. 182 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,840 How did you decide this was the best 183 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:06,160 case to showcase in the pilot? Like what 184 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,160 made it, you know, really show off what 185 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,520 OPA does? 186 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,160 I chose this case because a I thought a 187 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,880 murder was a very good way to go. For a 188 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,080 long time, it was a different kind of 189 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:16,720 murder. 190 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,160 I mean, I wasn't sure what we were going 191 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,080 to do in terms of what the murder was. 192 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,759 He was was he going to be guilty? Was it 193 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:23,680 going to be that he was innocent? I had 194 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,520 no idea how I was going to do it. In the 195 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,680 end, what I wanted was I wanted somebody 196 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,319 that we would love and that we would be 197 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:31,680 rooting for. 198 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,240 You know, I felt like 199 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,759 there's nothing more um especially at 200 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:39,199 that time period of time when we made 201 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,360 it. Don't Ask Don't Tell had just kind 202 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,759 of really ended and soldiers were still 203 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,000 not totally sure. Gay marriage hadn't 204 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,520 been made legal yet. All of those 205 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,400 things. And there was something about 206 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,319 this idea that you had served in a war, 207 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:54,960 that you were a hero, that you had all 208 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,039 these values that I don't I don't need 209 00:06:57,039 --> 00:06:59,039 to agree with, but a lot of people do. 210 00:06:59,039 --> 00:07:01,919 And he was this man who was holding on 211 00:07:01,919 --> 00:07:05,360 to a secret. Like that felt very kind of 212 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,120 lovely. And also matched the idea that 213 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,400 he had a secret that he needn't be 214 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:09,440 ashamed of 215 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,120 matched Olivia Pope to me. 216 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:12,479 Yeah. So that helped. 217 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:14,400 Yeah. Also, the idea that, you know, he 218 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,039 was somebody who loved another person 219 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:18,479 who was killed and he didn't have 220 00:07:18,479 --> 00:07:21,440 anything to do with it was great. It was 221 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,440 hard to get the studio and network to 222 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,639 understand that I was never going to 223 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:26,160 solve that crime 224 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,599 because that wasn't the issue, you know, 225 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:28,800 like that wasn't the issue. We're never 226 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,560 going to find out who killed Paige. And 227 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,400 we don't care who killed Paige. 228 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,639 It's very much like we don't care 229 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:36,720 necessarily whether or not the patient 230 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,160 lives or dies. We care about how our 231 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,440 doctors feel about how the patient lives 232 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,960 or dies when you're talking about grays, 233 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,759 right? 234 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:43,599 um we care about the person whose life 235 00:07:43,599 --> 00:07:45,840 we're trying to fix, but once we really 236 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,599 get emotionally invested in Sully, you 237 00:07:47,599 --> 00:07:49,120 don't you stop noticing that you're 238 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,880 worried about who killed Paige. 239 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,160 You just know he didn't and you're 240 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:53,840 relieved. 241 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,240 So that's really what happens. She says, 242 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,240 "We need more." Meaning the case in act 243 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,000 two, you leave it open-ended and saying, 244 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,160 "We don't have enough case." 245 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,319 She gets a call and we introduce our B 246 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:06,080 story. 247 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,240 So, let's switch Olivia Amanda Fitz to 248 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,319 green instead because we we made it we 249 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,240 already used our red and we like our red 250 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,160 where it was. So, while you do that, I'm 251 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,840 just going to explain using a you know 252 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,759 this moment when she goes to the park 253 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:23,280 and you're not sure who she's meeting or 254 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,440 why. 255 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,720 You realize she's standing in front of 256 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,440 the White House um and she's talking to 257 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,640 a guy and they never actually say who 258 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,800 they're talking about. Once again, it's 259 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,479 another way of introducing a mythic 260 00:08:36,479 --> 00:08:38,560 character who we are talking about, but 261 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:39,680 you don't know who. And so, you're 262 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:40,880 wondering who they're talking about. You 263 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,800 can imagine, but you don't know. We're 264 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,480 once again introducing somebody we don't 265 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,839 see. And they do a lot of he he he, but 266 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:50,000 they don't say who he is. And it's not 267 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,000 until the very end in the last line, you 268 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,000 tell the president of the United States, 269 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,880 you know, what she wants. That scene 270 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,800 basically spins us off in a whole new 271 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,880 direction. It also tells us she's a 272 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,800 different kind of power player. And it 273 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,959 it makes you feel like on top of the 274 00:09:04,959 --> 00:09:07,120 work that she does at OPA, she has a 275 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,160 different sort of secret level of work. 276 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:11,440 You didn't ask me here to talk about 277 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,880 Sully St. James. 278 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:13,760 He needs a favor. 279 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,880 I don't work for him anymore. 280 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:15,680 He trusts you. 281 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,200 I don't work for him anymore. 282 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,320 And yet you came when I called. 283 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,080 What? 284 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,560 There's a girl, an aid, going around 285 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:27,760 saying she's sleeping with him. 286 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:28,320 Is she 287 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,399 live? Clinton. Monica Lewinsky. John 288 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:32,320 Edward's real hunter. Is she? 289 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,640 No. You know him. He's not that guy. I 290 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,240 need you to shut her down. 291 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,360 I need to see him. 292 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,040 Li, that's not possible. 293 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,320 You want me to shut her down? Then I 294 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:43,600 need to look him in the eye and know 295 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:44,320 he's not lying. 296 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,839 He's not. 297 00:09:45,839 --> 00:09:47,600 Look, the man's schedule is insane. He 298 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:48,640 has no time to see her. 299 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,120 He wants the favor. He wants my 300 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,680 services. I do not work for him anymore. 301 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:56,000 So, you tell the president of the United 302 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,839 States to make time. 1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,320 the top of act three, Olivia is getting 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,320 ready to go to Camp David and she's in 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:11,679 her office and she's walking out and 4 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:14,000 Abby and Steven are asking her a million 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,679 questions and they're a little bit 6 00:00:15,679 --> 00:00:17,600 jealous and it's clear that they weren't 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,520 part of her White House life and they're 8 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,119 not part of whatever story she's talking 9 00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:23,199 about now. And you understand that she's 10 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:24,400 keeping a secret. 11 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,840 Whatever is happening and whatever she's 12 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,439 doing is going to be secret from them as 13 00:00:27,439 --> 00:00:30,000 well. It's not part of OPA. And so she's 14 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,160 heading out. You can sort of get a 15 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:33,440 little glimpse once again as we're 16 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,440 putting two stories together that Abby 17 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,760 likes Steven, you know, from the look on 18 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,760 her face, which which was really 19 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,440 important. We did most of the Abby likes 20 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,600 Steven by the way Abby looked at Steven. 21 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,200 There's not a lot of conversation about 22 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:45,840 it. 23 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,920 And Steven's talking about whether or 24 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,360 not he should propose, whether or not he 25 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,559 should get married. That's pretty much 26 00:00:50,559 --> 00:00:52,320 what's happening in that scene. 27 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,480 And she goes to Camp David. Regarding 28 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,640 the proposal with Stephen, um you 29 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,879 mentioned earlier that with Scandal, you 30 00:00:58,879 --> 00:00:59,840 really didn't think about the 31 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,359 backgrounds of the characters because 32 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:02,559 you didn't feel like it was important. 33 00:01:02,559 --> 00:01:04,320 So, what made you decide on that story 34 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:06,080 for Steven about proposing to his 35 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,439 girlfriend? 36 00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:08,960 What was really important about Steven 37 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:10,479 proposing to his girlfriend? There were 38 00:01:10,479 --> 00:01:13,040 two things. One, I was really interested 39 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,760 in Olivia having a work husband and no 40 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,680 one feeling like, oh, something romantic 41 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,280 is going to happen with them. That was 42 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,000 very important because for some reason 43 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,920 if you put a man and a woman in a story 44 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,960 together, everyone's like, they're going 45 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,680 to fall in love. And I was 46 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,200 I'm tired of that sort of cliche. And I 47 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,479 really wanted to see what happened when 48 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:35,119 two people were really truly friends. 49 00:01:35,119 --> 00:01:36,799 Um, and I loved that friendship 50 00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:39,360 together. So that was one. But two, more 51 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,119 importantly, I wanted to watch her make 52 00:01:43,119 --> 00:01:45,200 somebody else have a normal, happy life 53 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,040 that she sort of felt she was never 54 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:47,680 going to have. 55 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,759 Yeah. The idea that she would pick out 56 00:01:49,759 --> 00:01:51,759 an engagement ring and encourage him and 57 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:53,119 then go to the restaurant and say, "You 58 00:01:53,119 --> 00:01:54,399 can do this. Get down on one knee and 59 00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,240 propose." That whole thing and then 60 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,560 watch him propose and be happy when she 61 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,640 knew that that would never happen with 62 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,439 Fitz felt very important. It felt like a 63 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:06,479 great juxosition of of her dreams versus 64 00:02:06,479 --> 00:02:07,360 her reality. 65 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,560 Yeah. 66 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,920 She could make she could fix anybody 67 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:11,120 else's life. She could make it happen 68 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,319 for anybody else, but she couldn't make 69 00:02:12,319 --> 00:02:14,319 it happen for herself. 70 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:16,400 So, that was why. And I think it's 71 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,000 important when you're writing your your 72 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,680 pilot to try to think of those things 73 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,599 like how am I going to illustrate her 74 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:24,080 hopes and dreams without it being you 75 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,480 don't want to hear your character say I 76 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:27,760 wish that somebody would marry me. I 77 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,120 wish I could get an engagement ring and 78 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,720 I wish they'd get down on one knee. You 79 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,800 never want to hear that when somebody's 80 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,360 saying what they want directly speaking 81 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,040 everything they feel. 82 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,840 It gets sort of 83 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,000 boring and it feels it feels 84 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,160 heavy-handed. You want to find other 85 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:45,840 ways for it to happen without them 86 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,360 having to say it. The less your 87 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:48,959 characters can say, and the more you can 88 00:02:48,959 --> 00:02:51,040 show, the better. 89 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Then there's the scene where you see 90 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,920 Abby going to the museum 91 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,800 and talking to the girl about Paige, who 92 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,480 is the victim, trying to find out more 93 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,000 about her. So, another investigative 94 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,840 beat. 95 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,480 This beat was written for me at sort of 96 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:08,319 late when I, you know, I'd finished the 97 00:03:08,319 --> 00:03:10,720 script, I think, and I'd realized that 98 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,280 there was something missing. I didn't 99 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,879 have a way of explaining why Abby knew 100 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:18,239 that Paige was a [ __ ] 101 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:19,680 which is what she comes in and screams. 102 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:20,159 Yeah. 103 00:03:20,159 --> 00:03:22,640 I just it was she talks about it, but I 104 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:23,840 we didn't see it. And I thought it was 105 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,239 very important for us to see this beat. 106 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:27,840 It was also kind of cool that this is 107 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,519 the second time in the script that we've 108 00:03:29,519 --> 00:03:31,599 seen Abby be a little bit of a strong 109 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:33,440 man. You know, like she when she's 110 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,200 walking up to take the photos of the 111 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,159 body, 112 00:03:36,159 --> 00:03:38,560 um she sort of blackmails a little bit 113 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,080 the the 114 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,840 officer to get by. That's my favorite 115 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:42,319 scene. 116 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:44,480 Yeah. And then once again, it happens 117 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:44,879 here, 118 00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:46,319 right? There's the scene and the poor 119 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:48,640 girl starts crying about her dead friend 120 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,640 and instead and you really do it's it's 121 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,159 surprising even when I'm watching it 122 00:03:52,159 --> 00:03:54,319 this time after all these years to see 123 00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:56,000 this moment where instead of comforting 124 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,680 her in any way, she just says, "You can 125 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:58,959 cry, but I'm still going to ask the 126 00:03:58,959 --> 00:04:00,000 question." 127 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,519 It's great because you want to 128 00:04:01,519 --> 00:04:03,360 underscore who the character is. And in 129 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,680 those two scenes, you know exactly who 130 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,200 Abby is 131 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,599 um in terms of how she works. And it's a 132 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:12,080 great balance between clearly the way 133 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,519 she feels about Stephen. 134 00:04:13,519 --> 00:04:15,680 It keeps her from being soft as far as I 135 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,000 was concerned and it made her feel like 136 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,639 a much more three-dimensional complex 137 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:22,720 character to know that in her work 138 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,720 that's who she is. 139 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,759 Then we go to Camp David. Camp David is 140 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:30,080 great because and this is 141 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,759 um we meet we meet the love interest, we 142 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:36,080 meet the president, we basically meet 143 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,440 the B story big time in a lot of ways. 144 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,160 You know, we get to Camp David. We we 145 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,600 briefly meet the first lady, which 146 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,280 doesn't actually signify anything except 147 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,880 we understand that the first lady 148 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,680 doesn't know anything supposedly. She's, 149 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:52,720 you know, saying, "I'm going to fix you 150 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,240 up with somebody. I know you've been 151 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,720 perpetually single. It's very small." 152 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,280 Um, you understand that they had 153 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:01,280 problems cuz it's kind of mentioned by 154 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:02,720 Cyrus that, you know, it's not like it 155 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,360 was. They're so close. And everything 156 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,199 about that conversation that she has 157 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:10,000 with Fitz, everything that's said in 158 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,440 those two scenes, because there's one in 159 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,120 the house and one on the, you know, 160 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,160 walking down a road, every word I wanted 161 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,440 to be something that if you went back 162 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,360 and watched it again, 163 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,039 you would understand that Fitz and Liv 164 00:05:21,039 --> 00:05:22,080 were having a very different 165 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,360 conversation than you thought they were 166 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:24,240 having the first time. 167 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,840 Yeah. The line is something like, you 168 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,600 know, I've only loved one woman before. 169 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,639 Yeah. Yeah. and and basically even when 170 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:32,880 he says um you should come back to the 171 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,280 White House, you know, we we couldn't we 172 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:36,720 can't do it without you. And she says, 173 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,080 you know, I've never left your side, you 174 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,440 know, one of those things. 175 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,039 Every single thing that's said is really 176 00:05:41,039 --> 00:05:43,199 just about something else that Cyrus is 177 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:44,720 completely missing. 178 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,479 Um which is important. 179 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:48,160 How difficult was it to write that 180 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,520 scene? That had to be one of the hardest 181 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,120 ones, right? Because there's so much 182 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:52,720 subtext that you're trying to work into 183 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,320 that dialogue where you're trying to 184 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,919 have double meaning by almost every 185 00:05:55,919 --> 00:05:57,600 single sentence. That was a really 186 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,280 difficult scene to write because in a 187 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,680 lot of ways I had to keep going back and 188 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,199 pulling things out, right? Because you 189 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:04,960 don't want to give it away. I really 190 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,440 didn't want to give it away. And um when 191 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:08,800 you're watching the pilot, you'll notice 192 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,160 there's a moment when we cut really 193 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 wide. And that's because the looks on 194 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,319 their faces tell everything, too. Like 195 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:16,160 it's really the dialogue was really hard 196 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,520 to make 197 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,120 to make clean. 198 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,639 And I think you you just don't want to 199 00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:22,319 give anything away. Mhm. 200 00:06:22,319 --> 00:06:24,479 And so I went back and I rewrote it 201 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:26,080 several times and a lot of it was me 202 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,160 just cutting pieces of dialogue out till 203 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,759 they're saying basically almost nothing. 204 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:35,680 Her name is Amanda Tanner. She's 27. 205 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,880 I've got rumors she might be talking. 206 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,600 And you can't fire her. 207 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,000 Not without a nightmare on our hands. 208 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,520 Look, as yet she hasn't gone to the 209 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:46,960 press. I'd like to put a stop to it 210 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,600 before she does. 211 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,600 It's not right. Makes me look like a 212 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,160 dirty old man. I have to ask. 213 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,919 No, 214 00:06:53,919 --> 00:06:57,440 I never. I would never. 215 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,240 No. You've known me a long time. Longer 216 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:01,919 than most. 217 00:07:01,919 --> 00:07:03,520 You know I did not fall for some young 218 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,840 girl. You know there's only one person I 219 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:06,319 love. 220 00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:08,080 Millie and Fitz are happy together. Liv. 221 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,880 You'd have no reason to cheat. 222 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,160 I'll handle it. Consider it handled. 223 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,319 You should come back to the White House. 224 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:20,479 We need you on our side. I like working 225 00:07:20,479 --> 00:07:23,280 for myself, but I've never left your 226 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,280 side. 227 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:26,639 The 228 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:30,319 band is back together. 229 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:32,880 In the Camp David scenes in the script, 230 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,560 I wrote all this stuff and I about 231 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,840 Olivia spilling coffee on herself. 232 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,080 You'll notice in my false start, I think 233 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,840 in every last one, Olivia spills coffee 234 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,280 on herself. 235 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,280 This I wrote because for some reason it 236 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,039 seemed very important to me as her a 237 00:07:47,039 --> 00:07:48,800 character trait. Not because, you know, 238 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,160 you always see in romantic comedies how 239 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,440 the women are super clumsy and that 240 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:52,960 drove me nuts. 241 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,879 But because she was so perfect and 242 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:56,319 because I constantly, if there's 243 00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:57,680 something to be spilled on myself, I 244 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:58,720 will spill it. 245 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,800 And it felt to me like I wanted her to 246 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,319 feel 247 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:03,120 like us. 248 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:03,680 Yeah. 249 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,160 And so I kept trying to figure out what 250 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,599 was going to make her feel like us. And 251 00:08:07,599 --> 00:08:09,680 and at the time I had like gone through 252 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,280 an entire meeting with a coffee stain on 253 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:12,560 myself and I thought, well, that's what 254 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,120 she's going to do. And there's just no 255 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,599 way for Carrie Washington to spill, you 256 00:08:17,599 --> 00:08:19,440 know, it just didn't mentally it never 257 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,120 worked for me. When I once I cast the 258 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,599 role, that woman did not spill coffee on 259 00:08:23,599 --> 00:08:27,360 herself. And so it ended up coming out. 260 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,440 I also felt like once we got to the 261 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,199 image of her taking her blouse off and 262 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:32,320 putting her jacket on, it felt 263 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,360 gratuitous 264 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,200 once you've envision it really when it 265 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,519 was not sort of a practical thing 266 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:38,880 when a woman when especially when she 267 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:39,919 didn't seem like someone who would spill 268 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:43,039 coffee, it I so I just removed it. Mhm. 269 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:46,599 Okay. So, 270 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,720 she comes back from Camp David and 271 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,480 that's when our story turns on the a 272 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,880 case with Sully because Paige is a 273 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,399 [ __ ] Abby says 274 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,440 Giddily. Yeah. And in this act, I'm 275 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,360 really walking a fine line. It's a 276 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,279 balancing act. You don't want to get too 277 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:06,560 into one or two into the other because 278 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:07,519 the minute you introduce the White 279 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:08,880 House, you're intrigued and you want to 280 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,399 know what's going on, but you don't want 281 00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:11,920 to lose your case. 282 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,440 You don't want to stop thinking about 283 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,279 the A case at all. It's really important 284 00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:17,120 to keep the balance going. 285 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,880 And you're really starting to ramp up 286 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,760 the the B case a lot. So, we've met the 287 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:22,800 president, you know, Olivia's love 288 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,480 interest. We find out that Paige is a 289 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,000 [ __ ] And it's kind of a crazy scene 290 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,080 because Abby basically runs in, screams 291 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,440 pages of horror a couple of times, and 292 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,360 then runs back out again. But, it tells 293 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,880 you everything you need to know. And I 294 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,200 wanted that scene to be like that 295 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,279 because when people are presenting 296 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:39,680 investigative information, it can get 297 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,920 really sort of stale. You know, we've 298 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,000 all seen a million cop shows, a million 299 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,160 detective shows, a million lawyer shows 300 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,600 where people come in and they say these 301 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,000 very wrote things and you think like 302 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,839 once again we're hearing about something 303 00:09:51,839 --> 00:09:53,760 and I wanted it to be 304 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,440 funny and I wanted it to make be 305 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,519 something that you remembered. So I we 306 00:09:57,519 --> 00:09:59,040 wrote the scene in which she was just 307 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,640 giddy with excitement because she found 308 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,480 this information out. Do you also think 309 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,480 it helps with just showing like the 310 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,480 relationship between OPA like how like 311 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,920 into it they are like with the 312 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,360 investigative beat like you know like 313 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,120 it's not like delivered dryly like she's 314 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,720 excited to present this to the team and 315 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,040 it also shows more into her character. 316 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,800 There are things Yeah, I think there are 317 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,640 things that you can put in that make 318 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,320 thing that are really helpful in terms 319 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,560 of making your group seem like a group. 320 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:23,920 One of the things that I wrote into the 321 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,279 sec I think it's the second script that 322 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:27,040 I wrote into the second script was the 323 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,959 fact that and it's not discussed in 324 00:10:28,959 --> 00:10:31,120 dialogue but they all share a stick of 325 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,560 deodorant in one scene. 326 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:33,760 Yeah, I totally remember that. 327 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,399 You know, and it's gross, but it's 328 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:37,839 awesome because they've clearly been 329 00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:40,320 there for way too long and they're all 330 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,079 clearly stinky and so they're just 331 00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:43,440 passing around a stick of deodorant and 332 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,279 putting it on. They all change their 333 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:46,800 clothes sort of in front of one another 334 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,399 because they need like fresh shirts and 335 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:51,600 things, but it doesn't feel mannered and 336 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,040 they never discuss it. 337 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,720 So, and I wrote a little bit of that in 338 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,079 stage direction so that there would be 339 00:10:56,079 --> 00:10:57,519 just a little of it 340 00:10:57,519 --> 00:10:59,680 to give them to give the actors some 341 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,519 business to then build on. 342 00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:03,360 You don't want to give too much. I 343 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,360 always think it's important to not fill 344 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,279 your script with too much stage 345 00:11:07,279 --> 00:11:09,440 direction so that the actors feel like 346 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,800 they're being forced to do something. 347 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,160 Right. 348 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,519 Frankly, I feel like it's important to 349 00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:15,200 not tell the actors how to play 350 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,440 something as much as it is to tell us 351 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,040 what we're supposed to be seeing 352 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,399 visually in terms of location, um, 353 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:24,240 action and things like that. You don't 354 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,480 want to say, "She sits here, she stands 355 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,120 here, she does this here." And very 356 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,120 rarely do I say how something is 357 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,880 supposed to be said. Only if I'm 358 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,720 concerned that a reader will never 359 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,079 figure it out. Mhm. 360 00:11:36,079 --> 00:11:37,760 And often times I go through and I 361 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,760 remove that stuff before we give it to 362 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:40,720 the cast. 363 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,640 I noticed in your dialogue actually to 364 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,120 that point um that a couple of times you 365 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,680 would um put put the line in all capital 366 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,480 letters. And um I noticed that two of 367 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,880 the actors interpreted that so 368 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,440 differently. One person yelled and then 369 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,440 one person just got really intense and 370 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,440 kind of quiet. And I love that you had 371 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,120 sort of you had written that in there as 372 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,120 if something happens with this line. 373 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,000 Right. Yeah. And I I sort of put in, you 374 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,720 know, this is what I intend hopefully. 375 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,600 And these actors honestly are amazing. 376 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,760 They play every comma. Yeah. Every 377 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,360 ellipses. I get a call, they're like, I 378 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,360 see there's an ellipses here now. And 379 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,680 it's it's wonderful because they're very 380 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:21,279 committed. If you're lucky enough to 381 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:22,560 have actors that are so committed, you 382 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:23,760 want to be really careful with your 383 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,279 dialogue. I try to be very precise with 384 00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:27,360 my dialogue because they ask questions. 385 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Yeah. 386 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,920 So, it's important. 387 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,959 So, the case turns. She says page is a 388 00:12:32,959 --> 00:12:34,240 [ __ ] And then right at the end of the 389 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,560 scene, Olivia says, "Quinn, find out 390 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,160 every everything you can about Amanda 391 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,800 Tanner and then come with me." And 392 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,560 that's pretty much all she says. And 393 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,160 you're not quite sure what that means. 394 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,760 But then the next thing you know, 395 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,600 they're standing in a park and she's 396 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,279 sitting down next to a woman with a dog 397 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,279 and you realize it's Amanda Tanner. 398 00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,040 And Olivia proceeds to to sort of 399 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,680 eviscerate this poor girl by telling her 400 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,279 that her life is over and she's going to 401 00:12:57,279 --> 00:12:58,560 destroy her if she doesn't get out of 402 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,000 town. 403 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,920 And it's for me it was the scene that it 404 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,839 was a it was a very easy scene to write. 405 00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:07,519 It was one of the first things that had 406 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:09,040 come to my mind when I thought about 407 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,360 this show um this idea of this. And I 408 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,519 remember you know speaking of research 409 00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:18,160 asking Judy Smith a lot of questions 410 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,040 about this scene because Judy had a lot 411 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,279 of strong feelings about these kinds of 412 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:27,040 moments. But she talked about how you do 413 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,480 research and find out things about 414 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,000 people and what you do with the 415 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,440 information. And I wanted to know how 416 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,279 this would work. And she said, you know, 417 00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:37,360 you you don't want to threaten anybody 418 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,920 and you don't want to do anything that 419 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,360 feels illegal and you don't, you know, 420 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,880 you you just don't want to do that and 421 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,079 you don't want to on behalf of your 422 00:13:44,079 --> 00:13:46,160 client get your client in any kind of 423 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:47,839 trouble. You can't possibly behave in 424 00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:49,680 that way. And so I wrote the scene very 425 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,639 carefully, you know, and I don't know if 426 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:54,560 Judy approved completely, but she I did 427 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,079 try to follow the rules that she gave me 428 00:13:56,079 --> 00:13:58,880 of how you have a tough talk with a 429 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,480 client with with somebody who's sort of 430 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,560 bothering your client. 431 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:04,720 But it also tells you a lot about Olivia 432 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,800 because it means that Olivia can be like 433 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,720 surgically strike when necessary. She's 434 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,720 a person who can save a baby and isn't 435 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,560 that adorable? She can help a guy like 436 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,480 Sully who's you think is sweet and her 437 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,240 gut tells him she's innocent and oh poor 438 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,240 guy. and then she can destroy a poor 439 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,760 innocent girl on behalf of the most 440 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,680 powerful man on the in the free world. 441 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,279 So that was important. 442 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:24,720 Do you think it was important to have 443 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,320 things like saving the baby and the kind 444 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,160 of good side of Olivia before you have 445 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,839 this scene? Because I think in other 446 00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:31,920 ways this scene could kind of maybe turn 447 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,000 us against Olivia if we hadn't already 448 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,839 gotten invested and liked her. Well, the 449 00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:38,000 essence of the pilot now, once I decided 450 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,760 to insert Quinn, the essence of the 451 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,920 pilot, the journey you're actually on in 452 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,160 the pilot is Quinn's trying to figure 453 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,440 out is Olivia Oliv the Olivia Pope I 454 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,440 worship, is she great like I always 455 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,839 thought or is she a terrible person? Is 456 00:14:51,839 --> 00:14:53,760 she good or is she bad? Is being a 457 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,079 gladiator in her suit worth it or not? 458 00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:57,760 So, literally, she starts out thinking, 459 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,800 "This is the greatest thing that ever 460 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,480 happened to me." And then she's 461 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,079 questioning it and then she gets to this 462 00:15:02,079 --> 00:15:03,680 point and she thinks, "My god, these are 463 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:04,560 terrible people." 464 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,639 Yeah. So that's the journey that we're 465 00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:08,320 on. That's why Quinn is there witnessing 466 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,120 it. 467 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,639 And you have to really think about that 468 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:12,959 because to me Quinn's the audience 469 00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:14,560 when she does that. The look on Quinn's 470 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,160 face is what should be the look on our 471 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:16,639 face. 472 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:17,279 Yeah. 473 00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:19,279 And that helps us because it tells us 474 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:20,560 it's okay to think that. 475 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:21,360 Yeah. 476 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,680 If we didn't have anybody else there, 477 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,839 the audience is left to think, are we 478 00:15:25,839 --> 00:15:26,959 supposed to like her now? 479 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:27,360 Right. 480 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:27,839 Yeah. 481 00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:30,800 But Quinn tells us it's okay if we don't 482 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,160 like Olivia Pope right now. 483 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:32,720 Right. 484 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,120 She's our moral center. I'll give you 485 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,800 some free advice. Hand in your 486 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,199 resignation. Then pack up your dog and 487 00:15:39,199 --> 00:15:41,440 your things. Get in your car and go. 488 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,079 Find a small city. Minneapolis maybe or 489 00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:46,639 Denver. Get a little job. Meet a boring 490 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:48,880 boy. Make some friends. Because in this 491 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,800 town, your career is over. You're done. 492 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Why are you doing this to me? I'm a good 493 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:56,480 person. 494 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,320 You know who else was a good person? 495 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,639 Monica Lewinsky. And she was telling the 496 00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:04,920 truth, but she still got destroyed. 497 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,440 If you get subpoenaed in front of a 498 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,120 grand jury, you can testify as an 499 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,480 officer of the court that I was working 500 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,480 on my own. I didn't blackmail or 501 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:13,920 threaten her. If you don't get 502 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,040 subpoenaed, this never happened. 503 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,680 It's handled. 1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,480 You know, the next thing we see is Quinn 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,880 in that bathroom crying, I think. Yeah. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:11,280 Mhm. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:12,559 And she questions it, right? 5 00:00:12,559 --> 00:00:14,559 And it's really wonderful to have this 6 00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:16,800 moment where Quinn is questioning, 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,960 how can Olivia be this person? Is she 8 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,000 really good? 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,560 Um, so Quinn cries in bathroom and Huck 10 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,240 basically 11 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:26,880 becomes the voice of reason. 12 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,720 It was brilliant. Actually, I when I 13 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:30,320 read it, I saw that you had originally 14 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,559 written it with Olivia, and I loved that 15 00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:34,719 it changed to Huck because once again, 16 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:35,600 it gave 17 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,680 us an opportunity to hear about Olivia 18 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,200 in the third person. Yes. 19 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,360 Um rather than have her as a person 20 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,520 standing there saying, "You can't cry." 21 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,040 There was something very powerful about 22 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,879 hearing Huck say that and sort of speak 23 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:48,239 from his place. 24 00:00:48,239 --> 00:00:50,000 What was important to me when I changed 25 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,760 it was, you know, when you have a 26 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,840 character tell you about themselves, 27 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,760 they are not reliable narrators. They 28 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,199 never are because we don't know them 29 00:00:57,199 --> 00:00:58,960 well enough. But to have somebody come 30 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,359 from the outside and say, "Here's the 31 00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:03,680 deal. Here's what I think." Especially 32 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,320 someone like Huck say, you know, we're 33 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:09,040 all stray dogs. This is how this works. 34 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,880 They're basically saying, he's saying, 35 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,119 she's as mythic to me as she is to you. 36 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:15,280 I'm as messed up by this as you are. 37 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,880 Like, deal with it. 38 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,159 But he's been there longer. So, he's 39 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:20,080 like a voice of experience. 40 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,479 And it allowed Olivia to stay this sort 41 00:01:22,479 --> 00:01:23,520 of mythic figure. 42 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,280 Yeah. for to realize that that's who she 43 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,240 is for all of them. 44 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:27,119 Yeah. 45 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:28,880 Did you also want to use that spot 46 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,880 because obviously Quinn and Huck end up 47 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,320 having a very serious, you know, 48 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:34,000 relationship going forward. Was that in 49 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,200 your mind at the time when you were 50 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:35,759 doing that? 51 00:01:35,759 --> 00:01:36,640 Absolutely not. 52 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:37,280 Oh, interesting. 53 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,240 I had no idea. 54 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,040 Fascinating. 55 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,119 And I think when the pilot aired, that's 56 00:01:41,119 --> 00:01:42,640 the one thing we had to cut out. Like it 57 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:43,600 was a little bit long. 58 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:44,000 Yeah. 59 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,520 Um and I had to lose I think I had to 60 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,799 lose one scene and I think that's the 61 00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:48,399 scene we lost and we put it in the DVD 62 00:01:48,399 --> 00:01:49,840 and it's in all the you know, if you 63 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,680 watch it on streaming or anything, it's 64 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:52,320 always there. 65 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:53,759 Fascinating. But it wasn't in the 66 00:01:53,759 --> 00:01:55,680 original pilot that aired on television. 67 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,000 Oh wow. Cuz it's such a powerful scene. 68 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,399 Yeah. 69 00:01:58,399 --> 00:02:00,479 Yeah, I know. It was my favorite scene. 70 00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:02,159 Um it was my favorite scene and it 71 00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:03,920 killed me that it wasn't in the pilot 72 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,360 and it's really it was really important 73 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,520 to have it in the script as well because 74 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,239 for the reader, you really weren't sure 75 00:02:10,239 --> 00:02:12,800 like where you were emotionally. So to 76 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,319 have Quinn question who she is at the in 77 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:16,560 the end of the script and the end of act 78 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,800 three, Quinn questions who she is at the 79 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,239 end of act three and then at the top of 80 00:02:20,239 --> 00:02:24,400 act four she's questioning Olivia, her 81 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,560 place here and whether or not she wants 82 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,920 to even stay and Huck basically lays 83 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:31,360 down the law, 84 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,319 right? 85 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:35,440 You still don't know whether or not you 86 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,120 feel good about it, but for some reason 87 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,280 I feel like you feel comforted. Mhm. 88 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,879 That was my goal anyway to make sure 89 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:42,480 that you felt a little comforted by 90 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:43,840 this. 91 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,640 Um, then you go to Olivia, which I 92 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:50,319 really love. This is another scene I 93 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:51,680 really love. And this falls under the 94 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,720 Amanda Tanner storyline, 95 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,800 where you realize that Olivia is as 96 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,920 unsure of herself as Quinn is 97 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:01,280 because she picks up the she's watching 98 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,440 the president on television. She picks 99 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,200 up the phone and she calls him. 100 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,400 One of the things that was really 101 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,920 interesting was is I had a big problem 102 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,840 in the beginning which was he was the 103 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,120 leader of the free world and it is very 104 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,879 hard to get in touch with the leader of 105 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:18,080 the free world. 106 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,519 The president of the United States 107 00:03:19,519 --> 00:03:21,280 didn't have a cell phone. He didn't 108 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,920 email. You can't just show up at the 109 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:25,840 White House. He's literally supposed to 110 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,959 be the leader of the free world. He's 111 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:28,560 the busiest man on the planet. How do 112 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,560 you get in touch with him? And so I 113 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,640 loved the idea that her connection to 114 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,799 him was limited to watching him on 115 00:03:34,799 --> 00:03:36,319 television a lot of the time. Yeah. 116 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:38,159 And so I came up with this idea that she 117 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:40,720 would call him and say, you know, "Did 118 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,120 you buy her a dog?" And he says, "What?" 119 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,560 And she's and he says, "No." And she 120 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:45,760 says, "Turn your head a little to the 121 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,440 left so that she can look him dead in 122 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,760 the face on a television screen." 123 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:50,959 Which is one of my favorite things that 124 00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:53,200 that I feel like really worked in terms 125 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,239 of being clear how removed you are from 126 00:03:56,239 --> 00:03:58,000 the office of the president 127 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,319 um in that scene. and you know she has 128 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,080 to call Cyrus to get to him which means 129 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,760 there there are barriers 130 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,599 and those barriers will become even 131 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:08,000 greater you know as things progress 132 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,200 so there's the scene where you realize 133 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,799 that she's unsure of herself and then 134 00:04:10,799 --> 00:04:14,640 feels reassured by him like I did the 135 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,280 right thing then you come in and you 136 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:20,160 find out that um Sully's the Sully story 137 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,880 is growing it's the same scene but in 138 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,960 the same scene we then switch to talk 139 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,320 about the Sully story 140 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,880 she hangs up the phone um Stephen comes 141 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,800 in and says The Sully story is growing. 142 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,720 Abby comes in and says that Sully knew 143 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,560 that Paige was a [ __ ] Basically, Sully 144 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,560 knew that Paige was sleeping with other 145 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,400 guys 146 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,120 and that the gun, 147 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,360 the fingerprints on the gun or the 148 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,560 bullets on the gun, whatever it is, 149 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,199 match Sully's Sully's hands. Yeah. 150 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:50,960 Uh so that was a problem. So then you 151 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,240 have this moment where they go and they 152 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,280 confront Sully. 153 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:56,880 This is the first time Olivia Pope has 154 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,440 decided Sully is guilty. And in a larger 155 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,680 way, this is the first time Olivia 156 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,360 Pope's gut is wrong. Like she just she's 157 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,680 she's she's flipped. 158 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:08,960 Yeah. 159 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,639 The person who's guil innocent is guilty 160 00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:12,479 and the person who's guilty is innocent. 161 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:14,880 Did you purposefully put that kind of 162 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,600 near the um the scene with her looking 163 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,759 talking to the president on the phone to 164 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:21,759 try to like show that she's becoming 165 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:23,520 more unsure of herself? Well, they're in 166 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,039 the same scene on purpose because 167 00:05:27,039 --> 00:05:29,280 she's been sort of poisoned in a in a 168 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:30,320 lot of ways 169 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,560 so that she gets off that call with the 170 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,520 president and she's already decided to 171 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,320 she's allowed herself to be reassured. 172 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,759 And so she's already living in this 173 00:05:39,759 --> 00:05:41,120 world in which she believes the wrong 174 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,880 thing. And so when they come when they 175 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,560 come in and tell her this information, 176 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,160 she's already in that world of believing 177 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,320 the wrong thing. So she believes them, 178 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,720 walks in to see Sully and dis doesn't 179 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:51,680 believe him. Right. 180 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,479 So, it's already the he made her, you 181 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:56,000 know, distrust herself. 182 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,919 The world is already turned on its axis 183 00:05:57,919 --> 00:05:59,360 in a different direction. 184 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,919 Olivia following her gut is such a large 185 00:06:01,919 --> 00:06:03,840 part of her character. I was curious 186 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,680 when you decided that would be such a 187 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,680 like a main character trait for her. Was 188 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,039 it early on 189 00:06:09,039 --> 00:06:10,960 that also that's that's another thing 190 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,720 that came from research. The idea that 191 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,560 Olivia Pope would follow her gut was 192 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,720 something that Judy Smith said to me 193 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 early on about how she did her job. Mhm. 194 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,360 those ideas, those things that you get 195 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,840 from those conversations. Judy Smith sat 196 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:26,240 there and talked forever about, you 197 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,680 know, what she did for a living and how 198 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,199 it worked. And one of the things she 199 00:06:29,199 --> 00:06:30,960 said was, "You have to trust your gut. 200 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,240 Your gut will tell you everything you 201 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,080 need to know." That little piece of 202 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,160 information stuck with me forever. The 203 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,759 other piece that stuck with me, which 204 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:40,639 she says in here, is do not lie. 205 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:42,800 If you lie to me, I can't help you. 206 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,199 So those two things were the things that 207 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,759 I held on to. A lot of what Olivia says 208 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:50,800 in here about how you do your job, I got 209 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,639 directly out of Judy's mouth. 210 00:06:52,639 --> 00:06:55,840 So, and then Judy, you know, helped is a 211 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:57,199 consultant on the show and would read 212 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:58,400 the scripts and go, "That's not how you 213 00:06:58,400 --> 00:06:59,520 fix that. That's not how you'd fix 214 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,080 that." So, it was really helpful to hear 215 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,240 her voice in terms of research. It's 216 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,440 really important. 217 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,759 In act four, you know, Olivia talks to 218 00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:10,319 Sully. We realize that she's mistrust 219 00:07:10,319 --> 00:07:13,199 mistrusted herself twice now with the 220 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:15,759 president and with him. 221 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:18,639 Basically, then he kind of convinces her 222 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,199 with his very heartfelt statement of, "I 223 00:07:21,199 --> 00:07:22,400 didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't 224 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,560 do it." And she says to her team, "Get 225 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,680 some more evidence." 226 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,280 Which means that Sully gets another 227 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,280 chance. 228 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,360 And that's sort of we're we're in a 229 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:32,720 great place because she's sort of 230 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,440 teetering on the edge of losing herself 231 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,160 entirely and not losing herself. 232 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,479 Then we have what I call the pause. And 233 00:07:42,479 --> 00:07:45,039 for me in the script, this was always a 234 00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:46,639 problematic area. 235 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:48,720 So, and I'm gonna tell you what I think 236 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,440 the pitfalls of this area are. There's 237 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,280 this long pause in the script where 238 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,560 Olivia then stops everything she's doing 239 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,400 to pull out some engagement rings and 240 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,319 give them to Stephen and tell him how he 241 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:02,639 has to pick one and propose and they've 242 00:08:02,639 --> 00:08:04,080 made him a restaurant reservation with 243 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,240 his girlfriend and 244 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,639 and this must happen. And it's not this 245 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:10,160 is in the script. She'd pauses to tell 246 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,080 Abby that Stephen's not the man for her 247 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,759 and that he's useless and that she's 248 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:15,440 going to be fine without him and it's 249 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,160 all going to be lovely. It felt like in 250 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,199 the when you shot it, it sort of stopped 251 00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:22,479 the show dead. 252 00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:24,000 You're watching this moment happen and 253 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,639 you're going, 254 00:08:26,639 --> 00:08:28,080 you know, you have to really be mindful 255 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,400 of those things because at this point 256 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,640 you're in act four. Things need to be 257 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,640 moving at a fairly quick pace because 258 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,519 your audience is really they're already 259 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:38,800 leaning forward. they already want to 260 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,000 know what's going to happen next. 261 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:40,399 Mhm. 262 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:42,719 So to sort of stop the show for a very 263 00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:44,880 slow emotional moment when you have this 264 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,959 very fast-paced going is a problem, 265 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:47,360 right? 266 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,080 So what I ended up doing is I had Olivia 267 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,279 give um Stephen the rings and say pick 268 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:55,920 one and he does. And instead of Abby 269 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,760 having the conversation with Olivia and 270 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,320 instead of Olivia noticing how Abby 271 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,519 feels, we just see Aby's feelings from 272 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:05,120 as she looks in the window as they have 273 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,240 a conversation, 274 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,800 which in the end once again more 275 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,800 powerful. It was much more powerful to 276 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,120 see how Abby felt than to hear Abby 277 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,800 talking about Stephen in the first 278 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,920 place. 279 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,360 That was a lesson that I learned just 280 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:18,640 making this. 281 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,360 Then we have this time cut that happens. 282 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,760 And in that time cut, and it's a short 283 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,279 one. And it's a very slight thing. 284 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,519 Olivia goes through the lobby. You hear 285 00:09:27,519 --> 00:09:29,440 arguing. Amanda Tanner is there. She's 286 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,120 demanding to see Olivia. She seems 287 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,440 somewhat hysterical. And it feels very 288 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,519 jarring purposely. 289 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:37,600 Um because you want to feel like out of 290 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,240 nowhere, here comes this girl. And she 291 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,000 has this sort of hysterical outburst. 292 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,680 Olivia tells her she can't possibly be 293 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:45,279 there. The girl screaming, "I'm not 294 00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:48,959 lying. I'm not lying." Indirect um it 295 00:09:48,959 --> 00:09:50,800 should feel like it's almost like the 296 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,560 Sully scene. Sully is saying, "I'm not 297 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:53,839 lying. I'm not lying." And she says, 298 00:09:53,839 --> 00:09:55,839 "Maybe I believe him." Amanda says, "I'm 299 00:09:55,839 --> 00:09:57,040 not lying. I'm not lying." She says, 300 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:57,839 "Get out of here." 301 00:09:57,839 --> 00:09:58,560 Yeah. 302 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,040 The elevator doors closed on her. The 303 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,600 elevator doors open on the cops coming 304 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,560 to arrest Sully. 305 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:04,959 Mhm. 306 00:10:04,959 --> 00:10:06,320 So, you want to feel like things are 307 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,920 starting to spit out of control. That 308 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,279 was another reason I had a problem with 309 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:11,440 putting my emotional scene there, which 310 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,959 I had no other place to put it. 311 00:10:12,959 --> 00:10:13,600 Yeah. 312 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,000 Um, is because things are really 313 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,279 starting to heat up. The cops are 314 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:18,480 arriving and she's saying, "You can't 315 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,000 come in." And all these things and then 316 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,600 we stopped for a ring. 317 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,160 So she the the Amanda shows up, Olivia 318 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,000 kicks her out, the cops show up, Olivia 319 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:28,720 doesn't let them in. 320 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,000 Yep. 321 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,680 In act two when we meet our villain that 322 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:35,600 we we did something very important which 323 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:36,800 I forgot to mention 324 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,560 in act two when we meet our villain we 325 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:40,480 started our ticking clock. 326 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,200 He says this is how much time you have 327 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,360 to solve this problem or I'm going to 328 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,880 win. Basically 329 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,680 he wanted no time. She wanted 48 hours. 330 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,240 They negotiated and she got 24 hours, 331 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,200 which is how much time she has to find 332 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:56,720 something good for Sully or he's going 333 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,360 to be arrested. 334 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,240 So now when we hit um this moment when 335 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,760 the cops show up in act four and Olivia 336 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:05,120 won't let them in, he's basically saying 337 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,040 it's time. She's saying we have I think 338 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,200 she says we have two more hours and he 339 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,720 says, "Well, that's all the time you 340 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:11,920 have and then we're going to arrest 341 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:12,640 him." 342 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:13,920 And so the cops are basically standing 343 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,000 outside the door. She she's like, 344 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,839 "Stephen, we you know, we're running out 345 00:11:17,839 --> 00:11:20,800 of time." So then you have Abby and 346 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,320 Steven's outside the bar where they're 347 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,920 going to check the alibi that Steven 348 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,200 said he, you know, that Sully was 349 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,279 supposed to have and they feel like they 350 00:11:27,279 --> 00:11:28,399 don't have anything and then they 351 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:30,399 realize there are security cameras 352 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,399 up, you know, at the top. Then you have 353 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:35,519 this bribe moment which was me um where 354 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:37,040 they bribe the the guy who runs the 355 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,720 security cameras. I really tried to find 356 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,320 a way to make that interesting because 357 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,800 I've seen that a thousand times. So the 358 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,240 $500 in the pizza was basically just a 359 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,040 fast way to sort of enter that scene. 360 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:50,800 Harrison entering with a pizza at $500 361 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,200 saying I have $500 in a pizza versus 362 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,680 just let us see the videotape which is 363 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,279 then what's said anyway. But you want to 364 00:11:57,279 --> 00:11:59,839 add just a little piece of humor or a 365 00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:01,839 little piece of energy to a scene like 366 00:12:01,839 --> 00:12:02,560 that 367 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,240 because when they're short like that you 368 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,240 you can't make them, you know, some long 369 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,040 scene. 370 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,480 But I also didn't want to make it 371 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,040 boring. And I love that you also have 372 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,800 Stephen say, "We have a ticking clock 373 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:13,279 here." 374 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:13,600 Yes. 375 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,320 Once again, 376 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,839 once again, I like to say the words, 377 00:12:15,839 --> 00:12:17,839 "This is a ticking clock." 378 00:12:17,839 --> 00:12:20,160 Um, Olivia also says, "Call get Abby on 379 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,519 the phone. Tell her we've been invaded. 380 00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:23,120 Tell her time is up." 381 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,800 So, 382 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,480 it's it's very important for people to 383 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,560 get a sense of urgency about what's 384 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,000 happening. And I think a lot of times 385 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,600 people don't want to insert that sense 386 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,480 of urgency. And I'm not sure why they 387 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,160 have a hesitancy to do so, but it's 388 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:37,920 important for the audience to feel like 389 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,839 they're understanding the journey you're 390 00:12:39,839 --> 00:12:41,839 on, sometimes they don't even understand 391 00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:43,200 that, oh wait, we're in a moment in 392 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,360 which time is up. 393 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,200 There's a there's a point to be made 394 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,880 that whenever you're writing an episode 395 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,680 of television and there are any factors 396 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,480 that need to be understood, the medicine 397 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,720 is terrible. The patient might die if we 398 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,440 don't blank. You have to explain it in a 399 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,760 very simple fashion. Explain I always 400 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,760 say like explain it to me like I've 401 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,279 never heard of whatever it is we're 402 00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,120 talking about before. And if you can't 403 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,519 do that, then you shouldn't be doing it. 404 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,040 And it's not that you have to dumb 405 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:12,399 things down for the audience. The 406 00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:13,920 audience isn't stupid. They're happy to 407 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,000 learn. But you have to remember that 408 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,519 you're throwing a ton of information at 409 00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:19,519 them and you have to in one sentence 410 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,519 tell them what's happening. 411 00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:24,320 So that they're with you. You don't have 412 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,600 a lot of time. 413 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,600 It's not a movie. 414 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,200 So then they have this moment and then 415 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:30,880 they come back basically with their 416 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:31,360 answer. 417 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:32,720 Yeah. 418 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,079 So, the end of act four is 419 00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:38,639 case solved. 420 00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:42,639 Well, Sully's alibi solved, 421 00:13:42,639 --> 00:13:44,959 but not one. 422 00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:46,800 And do you typically try to do that in 423 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,959 each episode at the end of act four? 424 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:50,959 There's sort of a resolution for us as 425 00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:54,320 the audience. Um, what the what Olivia 426 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,480 was out to accomplish, even though it 427 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,240 might not end until act five. 428 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,720 Interestingly enough, no. Usually what 429 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,279 what tries I try to do is to have and 430 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,079 this is what this really is is all seems 431 00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:06,880 lost. 432 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:07,279 Uhhuh. 433 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:09,519 You know, case solved, but alibi solved, 434 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:11,760 case not one is all seems lost. 435 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Because they know for sure, they 436 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,920 definitely know that he is innocent. 437 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:16,399 Yeah. 438 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:18,079 You know, we absolutely know that this 439 00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:20,320 man is innocent and yet they have no way 440 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,600 of helping him 441 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,320 and he is he'd rather go to jail than 442 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,279 tell the truth. Yeah. 443 00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:28,160 So all is lost. So you could we call it 444 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,600 the all is lost moment, but that's for 445 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,959 me what that really is. 446 00:14:30,959 --> 00:14:33,959 Yeah. 447 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Sullivan St. James, you have the right 448 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,320 to remain silent. Anything you say can 449 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:43,760 and will be used against you in a court 450 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,120 of law. You have the right to an 451 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,360 attorney. If you cannot afford one, one 452 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,240 will be provided to you by 453 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,600 Hey, you seen Olivia? 454 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,079 Sy was just arrested. Olivia went to the 455 00:14:56,079 --> 00:14:57,279 police station. 456 00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,360 Oh, 457 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,720 what's up? I'm on my way there. 458 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,320 I got a strange call from some girl 459 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,440 named Amanda Tanner. 460 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,079 What about her? 461 00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:05,600 She's in the hospital. She tried to kill 462 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,600 herself. 463 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,040 So, you know, in act three, we sort of 464 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,240 have filled out our stories in emotional 465 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,519 and um investigative ways. In act four, 466 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:22,560 it's really about growing our characters 467 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,399 emotionally and then heating up the 468 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:26,959 investigations and ending sort of in an 469 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:29,680 all is lost moment. You know, he hating 470 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,120 up or taking clock or all is lost 471 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,279 moment. Act five, the Sully's alibi is 472 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:36,639 solved, but the case is not one, which 473 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:38,639 is an all is lost moment. And then to 474 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:41,519 top off that all is lost moment, um 475 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:43,040 Quinn is on her way to the police 476 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,399 station and Huck comes in and says 477 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:46,880 Amanda Tanner tried to kill herself. 478 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,600 So, another thing is all is lost. Things 479 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,560 have gotten worse on every front. 480 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,360 And you have to think about how those 481 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,720 things can get worse. They need to be 482 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,720 able to affect your main character, 483 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,399 but they also need to be sort of 484 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:03,680 effective emotionally because so Sully 485 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,759 turning himself in makes you love him 486 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:07,839 even more. It's an emotional moment. 487 00:16:07,839 --> 00:16:08,320 Yeah. 488 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,800 You know, he, you know, stands up and he 489 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,360 says, "I'm a hero." and he walks down 490 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,199 the hall and he turns around and he puts 491 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:16,399 his hands in the cuffs and you think, 492 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,480 "Oh, this poor man. He cannot figure out 493 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:19,759 how to be himself." 494 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:21,519 You know, how can we help him? And then 495 00:16:21,519 --> 00:16:22,880 when you find an Amanda Tanner tried to 496 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,240 kill herself, you're thinking, "Oh my 497 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,920 god, this is terrible. She must be 498 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,759 telling the truth or it's really going 499 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:29,759 to hurt the president or Olivia Pope's 500 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:31,519 got work to do." Whatever it is, you 501 00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:33,279 think that turns the story in a 502 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:35,519 different direction. Those moments have 503 00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:38,160 to not be just 504 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,399 and it's over. You know it, you know, 505 00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:42,240 the all is lost moment has to fe make 506 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,600 you feel like there's a little bit of a 507 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,839 twist 1 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:08,240 We're in act five. They're in the police 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,760 station. They have no no idea what 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:11,280 they're going to do about Sully, but 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,840 basically they decide, let's try to keep 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:15,839 the press at bay, you know? So, it's 6 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,000 sort of a it's sort of a holding pattern 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,240 beat, as I like to call it because you 8 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:22,000 you have to keep the story alive, but 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,519 you don't really have anything to do. 10 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:25,680 Like you you can't leave that all is 11 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,439 lost moment and then not come back to it 12 00:00:27,439 --> 00:00:30,320 until Olivia has her moment. You have to 13 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,480 say here's what happens when somebody 14 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:34,079 gets arrested 15 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:35,520 and you have to remember that you have 16 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,440 to say those things mainly because you 17 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:38,719 have to think logically what would 18 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:40,160 happen next. They take him to the police 19 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:41,360 station. They'd be worried about the 20 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,920 press and then Olivia gets the page that 21 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,360 basically says that Amanda Tanner tried 22 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:46,879 to kill herself. So the next time you 23 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:49,360 see her, Olivia's at the hospital 24 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,160 talking to Quinn and you don't question 25 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:53,440 why Quinn's at the hospital. You don't 26 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,199 question any of those things. So then 27 00:00:55,199 --> 00:00:56,719 Olivia and Quinn are at the hospital and 28 00:00:56,719 --> 00:00:59,120 Quinn is trying to convince Olivia that 29 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,760 she believes Amanda Tanner. And Quinn 30 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,520 says the most important thing, which is 31 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,439 that I trust my gut. And my gut says 32 00:01:05,439 --> 00:01:07,040 she's telling the truth. 33 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,560 Which is what Olivia which is what makes 34 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,400 Olivia stop and say, "Why do you trust 35 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,400 your gut?" Mhm. 36 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,000 And I love that because now we've 37 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,799 watched Quinn learn from Olivia 38 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:18,720 all the way through. 39 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,159 Moments like that, those call back 40 00:01:20,159 --> 00:01:21,200 moments, that's what I like to call 41 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,920 them, call back moments, are really key 42 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,680 because they really make the story feel 43 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,720 like they have a a full circle quality 44 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,720 to them. 45 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,240 I like that you also learned something 46 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,560 about Olivia there as well, that for as 47 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,479 much as she trusts her gut, she's really 48 00:01:36,479 --> 00:01:37,920 willing to listen to people when they 49 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:38,720 trust theirs. 50 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Yes. Yes. She trusts me. It also sort of 51 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,640 says like you trust the idea of trusting 52 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,560 your gut so much that if somebody else 53 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:47,759 says that they trust theirs, you'll 54 00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:48,079 listen, 55 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:49,040 right? 56 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,360 Which I think is important. And then 57 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,280 basically 58 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,320 this was fascinating to me. I kept for 59 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,759 some reason I don't know why the phrase 60 00:01:57,759 --> 00:02:00,240 sweet baby was the phrase, but it was 61 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,960 cuz nobody would I can't really imagine 62 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,479 calling someone sweet baby. It sounds 63 00:02:04,479 --> 00:02:05,520 like a really weird thing to call 64 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,840 somebody. It sounds a little creepy. But 65 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,560 some for some reason at the time it 66 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,560 worked perfectly in my head. Like the 67 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,800 music of it worked perfectly in my head. 68 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,000 And so I introduced this phrase in this 69 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,040 scene and there's no relationship 70 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040 anywhere else in the show. It hasn't 71 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,280 ever been said before. We've never used 72 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,040 it before. It's not one of those moments 73 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,680 where you hear it and we all go, "Oh." 74 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,160 But she hears it and goes, "Oh." So 75 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,840 we're now referring to a moment that's 76 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,000 happened way before the show has ever 77 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,200 started. 78 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,720 And that's a that's kind of a a gamble. 79 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,879 Like you're not I wasn't 100% sure the 80 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:44,800 audience was going to go with us on that 81 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,640 because they don't know what we're 82 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:49,920 talking about. But he she says it and it 83 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,160 stops Olivia enough to make Olivia stop 84 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:53,360 and just walk away. 85 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:53,599 Yeah. 86 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:54,720 And the next time you see her, she's 87 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,720 standing in the Oval Office. 88 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,319 What's really good is that after that, 89 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:04,720 it's basically Olivia becomes um a 90 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,640 little unhinged. 91 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,560 So the story starts, you know, story 92 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,640 starts to unravel fairly rapidly because 93 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:12,080 now everything else that you see is 94 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,159 basically the truth and it's all kind of 95 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:15,120 about Olivia. 96 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:15,599 Yeah. 97 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:18,000 In a weird way. So we have that moment 98 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,080 and then Olivia goes to the Oval Office 99 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,319 and the truth about the president is 100 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:27,040 revealed and Olivia's truth is revealed. 101 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,400 Mhm. 102 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,680 One of the things that we did in that 103 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,159 scene that I thought was important to 104 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:33,920 setting up a world and making a world 105 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:36,000 very clear was the moment when Fitz 106 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,280 points upwards 107 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,720 and they look up and there's the cameras 108 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,760 above them. 109 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,599 That was just about 110 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:44,159 making you understand the idea of the 111 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:46,480 lack of privacy involved with being the 112 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:47,920 president and the idea that they're 113 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,120 always being watched 114 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,200 and the secrets and the scandal aspect 115 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,400 of everything. 116 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,080 You wanted to feel like that. And so I 117 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,480 wrote that in on purpose. Mhm. 118 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,080 So then you get this idea about that and 119 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,200 then they're discovered by by um Cyrus. 120 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,280 So then their secret is now out a little 121 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,760 bit more. It feels odd now knowing what 122 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,840 I know 123 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,959 um what we all know. But the idea for 124 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:13,439 Olivia that because Fitz didn't tell 125 00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:14,959 Cyrus, 126 00:04:14,959 --> 00:04:16,639 the relationship couldn't possibly have 127 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:18,479 been very important to him 128 00:04:18,479 --> 00:04:20,639 is a big moment in this episode because 129 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:23,680 it's what fuels her rage, 130 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,320 you know. So Olivia leaves there sort of 131 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,639 enraged. The affair happened with Amanda 132 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:30,560 Tanner. He didn't care enough about her 133 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,840 to even say anything to Cyrus. 134 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:38,280 Meaning she was just another girl. 135 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,160 I just want to say that we can hear you 136 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,160 screaming. 137 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:00,960 Mr. President, 138 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,080 you want to go clean up? 139 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:02,720 Sorry. 140 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,360 You have lipstick on your mouth. You 141 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,840 need to clean up. 142 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,320 Mother of God. 143 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,360 You didn't know. 144 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:26,880 He tells you everything. 145 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,199 Didn't tell me this 146 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:33,320 because it didn't matter enough. 147 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:37,320 I have to go. 148 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,280 And it's also the moment that a lot of 149 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:41,600 things come come back for us. You know, 150 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,440 she says, "Did you give her that dog 151 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,840 again?" But she realized that for her 152 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:48,639 that's the ultimate affront. She starts 153 00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:49,919 talking about sweet baby which is 154 00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:51,120 clearly you begin to understand that's 155 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,120 something that he must have said to her. 156 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,039 Um she says that girl tried to kill 157 00:05:55,039 --> 00:05:56,400 herself. I believed you. I trusted my 158 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,080 gut. Like you realize that a lot of this 159 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,479 was built on the stuff that he'd said to 160 00:06:00,479 --> 00:06:02,479 her and that that that's what's going 161 00:06:02,479 --> 00:06:03,680 on. 162 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,000 Was there any worry about making the 163 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,520 president 164 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,440 more likable since we over the course of 165 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,440 the episode we discover he's committed 166 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,840 two affairs on his wife? But we want to 167 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,160 root for Fritz and Olivia it almost 168 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,000 feels like. So is there any question 169 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,759 about 170 00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:22,720 making him giving him something really 171 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:23,840 redeemable? 172 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,039 What makes you think that you want to 173 00:06:25,039 --> 00:06:27,360 root for Fitz and Olivia? 174 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,440 Because you want Olivia to be happy and 175 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,160 it seems like to be happy she wants to 176 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,800 be with Fitz. And we can all see that 177 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,199 seems like a bad situation 178 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:39,280 but it seems like that's what she wants. 179 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:41,759 And she also says you're a good man. She 180 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:44,000 tells him that he's a good man and you 181 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:44,960 want to believe that. 182 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,400 She says, "I wanted you to be a better 183 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:46,880 man." 184 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:47,840 Yeah. 185 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:51,520 Um I think that and this was really this 186 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,039 is a very interesting discussion because 187 00:06:53,039 --> 00:06:54,880 I've had this discussion a lot. 188 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,280 Um and I this might be the perfect place 189 00:06:57,280 --> 00:06:59,919 to sort of explain. It's really 190 00:06:59,919 --> 00:07:01,680 important to me when you're watching the 191 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,639 show that you fall in love with the 192 00:07:04,639 --> 00:07:06,240 terrible man that Olivia falls in love 193 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:07,840 with. You go on the love affair journey 194 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:08,880 that she does 195 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,919 so that you fall into the same pit that 196 00:07:11,919 --> 00:07:13,520 she falls into 197 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,520 and then you are pulled out of the same 198 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,199 pit that she has pulled out of. You 199 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:18,319 know, people say, "Why make us fall in 200 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:19,520 love with Fitz and then make us hate 201 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,960 him?" Because that's what happens to 202 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,240 her. 203 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,400 In this episode, I don't think that 204 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,080 there's a single thing in here that's 205 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,800 makes him irredeemable. He seems to love 206 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,160 her dearly. 207 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,919 Um, he never says, "I had of an affair 208 00:07:33,919 --> 00:07:36,000 with Amanda Tanner." He never says 209 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,680 anything. Actually, if you notice, he 210 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,759 literally never says anything about it 211 00:07:39,759 --> 00:07:41,120 in that scene. 212 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,160 All he does is kiss her. And in the 213 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,199 middle scene, he basically says, 214 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:47,520 "There's only one woman I love." So, he 215 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,680 hasn't done anything. He's literally a 216 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,840 blank slate that every woman fills. And 217 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,680 I've noticed this fills with their own 218 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:54,639 expectations. 219 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:55,120 Yeah. 220 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,720 And it's fascinating to watch because 221 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,000 people tell me all kinds of different 222 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,680 things about that character. 223 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,520 I can't decide if that's just, oh, I'm 224 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,360 such a great writer or the magic of Tony 225 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,120 Goldwin. And I'm pretty sure a lot of 226 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,199 it's the magic of Tony Gold. 227 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:09,360 It seems like throughout the pilot, you 228 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:10,720 know, you've set up Olivia as like 229 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,560 almost like superhuman, like she's the 230 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,039 hero without any like flaws whatsoever, 231 00:08:15,039 --> 00:08:16,639 and then you introduce this flaw and 232 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:19,120 it's not like tiny. It's like a big big 233 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:19,840 thing. 234 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,520 So, I'm just wondering, can you talk a 235 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:22,639 little bit more about like did you 236 00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:24,240 receive like any kind of like push back 237 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,919 on this or like is it is it I just don't 238 00:08:27,919 --> 00:08:31,199 know. Like it's so great and so huge. I 239 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:32,880 can only imagine like trying to like 240 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,399 push that through the barriers, you 241 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:34,719 know. 242 00:08:34,719 --> 00:08:37,360 Well, it's interesting. I one I think 243 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,279 it's not necessarily that she I mean she 244 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:41,360 does seem super human and part of why 245 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,599 she seems super human is because she has 246 00:08:43,599 --> 00:08:46,480 this big issue. So because of that she 247 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,240 is now cold. Like I'm always like Olivia 248 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,000 is dead inside because of that. Like 249 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,519 she's holding herself together as best 250 00:08:51,519 --> 00:08:53,920 she can. Um, truly, you know, she's 251 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,560 doing her best to sort of remain, 252 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:58,720 I don't know, nonemotional because she 253 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,160 it's like if she felt it, it would all 254 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,839 explode. 255 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:05,440 When I wrote the pilot, um, one of the 256 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,800 first notes I received, and I can say 257 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,640 this because 258 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,480 nobody who was there before is there 259 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,839 now, except for the wonderful president 260 00:09:11,839 --> 00:09:13,279 of the network, who actually was the one 261 00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:15,120 person who was like, "This is the best." 262 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Um, when I wrote the pilot, the first 263 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,519 note I got, the first phone call I got 264 00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:21,200 said, "Can Olivia not be having an 265 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,720 affair with the president? Like, can she 266 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,560 just be very disappointed in him because 267 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:28,240 they are friends?" And I remember like 268 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,640 putting down the phone and like laughing 269 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,040 for like a full minute cuz I thought, 270 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,120 "But that's the show for me. That was 271 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,279 the show." and picking the phone back up 272 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:39,519 and sort of saying, and I guess I can 273 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:41,360 say this because it's not a we're not in 274 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,519 a family room, but saying Olivia is 275 00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:44,959 gonna have sex with the president on the 276 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:46,560 Oval Office desk at some point this 277 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:48,880 season, and if we don't do that, then I 278 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:49,920 don't have a show. Like, I don't know 279 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,360 how to write the show unless that's 280 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:52,880 going to happen. That's the moment I'm 281 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,120 writing towards as far as I'm concerned. 282 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,760 And they were sort of appalled and 283 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,080 unsure if that was going to work. And I 284 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,839 get it because we all hold the office of 285 00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:04,080 the presidency to be a certain thing. 286 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,959 And at the time, you know, we had this 287 00:10:06,959 --> 00:10:08,640 amazing president in office and it all 288 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,640 felt very 289 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,480 I don't know. I think it felt very scary 290 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,800 to suggest something like this. 291 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,360 I felt like it felt very true. I also 292 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,680 knew that because I knew where I wanted 293 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:22,560 to take him in that first season, you 294 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,959 were going to be rooting for them at a 295 00:10:24,959 --> 00:10:27,040 certain point. And while you may not 296 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,480 have been rooting for them now, and 297 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,800 while a lot of people might have their 298 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,839 own feelings about her, I I really feel 299 00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:35,440 like this idea that a woman had to be 300 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,399 perfect would was a problem. Like the 301 00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:40,800 idea that she could be somebody that you 302 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,040 absolutely loved who was also having an 303 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,680 affair felt interesting to me. And we 304 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:46,880 did get push back. I mean, a lot of 305 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,640 people said like, "This is a woman who's 306 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,000 who's stealing someone's husband. This 307 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,399 is a mistress. This is a you know, why 308 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:54,560 are we liking her?" And I would say 309 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,240 because she's a human being, you know, 310 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,240 everybody has value. And to me that was 311 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,120 interesting. 312 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,120 I remember Tony saying to me when he got 313 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,959 the script, this character is so complex 314 00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:05,839 and there's so much there in so little. 315 00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:07,200 You know, there's not that much of him 316 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,680 in this, but there's so much there. 317 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,200 For me, there's something great about 318 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,800 the fact that he lies to her because it 319 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,959 tells you what to me what happened after 320 00:11:16,959 --> 00:11:19,200 she left. In a lot of ways, it allowed 321 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,560 him to fill in the blanks anyway of what 322 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,720 happened after she left because they had 323 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,640 this great love. It was obviously very 324 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,720 important. And to me, the most telling 325 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,880 thing he says is, "You left me." 326 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,320 And she says, "Because I wanted you to 327 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,920 be a better man. Because I wanted you to 328 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,240 be blah blah blah." Not because you said 329 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,000 you wanted to be a better man. Because 330 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,839 you said any of these things, but 331 00:11:37,839 --> 00:11:40,000 because I wanted these things for you. 332 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,040 So what he did after she left is his own 333 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,880 business, I think. And when you call in 334 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,200 a fixer to fix something, you don't say, 335 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,839 "Yeah, I did it." It also goes to the 336 00:11:49,839 --> 00:11:52,240 aspect that Olivia says to Sully, which 337 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,760 is, "Do not lie." 338 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,360 And that's the first thing Fitz does is 339 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,399 lie. 340 00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:58,240 And she says, "If I lie, if you lie, I 341 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,360 can't help you." 342 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:00,959 And that in the end of the episode, she 343 00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:02,560 says, "Amanda Tanner just became my 344 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,959 client." So, it's all tied together in 345 00:12:04,959 --> 00:12:06,639 that very clean way. 346 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:06,959 Yeah. 347 00:12:06,959 --> 00:12:08,480 So, we have this moment where Livby goes 348 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,160 to the Oval Office. we have this moment 349 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:11,440 where you've realized that the president 350 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,079 has in fact lied to her and you know 351 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:15,920 technically he was a client. So this 352 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,720 client has lied. So now one we've 353 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,800 revealed her affair. We've revealed her 354 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,959 secret. Her secret's been found out. The 355 00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:24,160 president has lied to her and she's 356 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,560 incredibly hurt when she leaves. We 357 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,120 leave that moment and right before it 358 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:30,480 happens, you know, right when she's 359 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,600 standing in the Oval Office, she's 360 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,680 clearly upset. Before we know what she's 361 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,680 upset about, she gets a phone call and 362 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,200 it's Steven. And you don't know what he 363 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,959 needs, but you hear her sort of saying, 364 00:12:38,959 --> 00:12:40,880 "I'll be there. I'll take I'll take care 365 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,959 of you." Basically, 366 00:12:42,959 --> 00:12:45,120 coming off of this incredibly emotional, 367 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,200 painful moment, she arrives in a 368 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,880 restaurant and stands in a coat check 369 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,920 room and basically holds her best 370 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,560 friend's hand and convinces him and 371 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:56,639 tells him and encourages him to go ahead 372 00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:59,200 and propose to his girlfriend. 373 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,839 And what's really sweet is that she is 374 00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:05,519 able to take any personal issues that 375 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:08,560 she has and shove them all down and give 376 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,399 somebody else what they need and fix 377 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,720 their problem in spite of whatever's 378 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,760 going on with her. And as I said before, 379 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,320 you know, we use Steven's ability to 380 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,760 propose to his girlfriend even though 381 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,720 he's afraid to be sort of the the life 382 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,240 that Olivia is never going to have. You 383 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,839 know, the get some normal of it all is 384 00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:28,800 about that. and and the idea, you know, 385 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,079 Stephen keeps saying, "I'm not a good 386 00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:32,880 guy." And Quinn is keeps questioning, 387 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,399 "Are we the good guys? Are the bad 388 00:13:34,399 --> 00:13:35,760 guys?" You know, is that what's going 389 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,839 on? You know, what are we? 390 00:13:37,839 --> 00:13:41,040 Then you have the scene where um Olivia 391 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,639 goes straight to see Sully in prison and 392 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:46,240 she sits down next to him and she 393 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,399 basically says the thing that we all 394 00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:50,639 understand to be true, which is that who 395 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,480 you love doesn't have to be a secret. 396 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,800 That's the key line of the whole scene. 397 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,639 and you think that she hasn't made her, 398 00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:59,600 you know, made it through to him and she 399 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,279 has. 400 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,680 For me, that scene is the scene that all 401 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,040 that needs to happen in almost every 402 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:05,760 episode. 403 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,519 That's where your A story, your personal 404 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:09,279 story and your your A story, your Sully 405 00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:10,880 story, and your B story, your personal 406 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,279 story merge. 407 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:14,480 Whatever's happened to her in the B 408 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:15,839 story affects the A story. And whatever 409 00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:17,199 happens in the A story affects the B 410 00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:18,639 story. 411 00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:20,160 And so what's happened to her with the 412 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,920 president has given her sort of the 413 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,560 emotional knowledge to go to Sully and 414 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,040 lay it bare. And that in turn makes 415 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,760 Sully tell her his name is John Latimer. 416 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,600 I think that's his name. And I do love 417 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,600 him. And from there we go into Sully 418 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,079 making a speech in front of the press, 419 00:14:38,079 --> 00:14:40,079 standing up in front of the press in his 420 00:14:40,079 --> 00:14:42,560 little military dress uniform and 421 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,120 stating, you know, for the record that 422 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,040 he is um a proud gay soldier 423 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,279 and you know that his you by doing that, 424 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,519 you know that his alibi has been placed, 425 00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:55,199 you know, put forward. You know that 426 00:14:55,199 --> 00:14:56,480 he's going to not be charged with 427 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,320 anything. I think you hear somebody a 428 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,959 reporter saying it and then we sort of 429 00:15:00,959 --> 00:15:04,720 have these beats that very clearly um 430 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,320 wrap up little, you know, the pieces of 431 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,920 our story. We see um Steven with Abby 432 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,360 telling her that the other soldiers are 433 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:12,880 a nice touch and he puts his arm around 434 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,720 her and with a couple of looks you 435 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,959 understand that Abby still deeply likes 436 00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:21,680 him. You have a moment with Quinn and um 437 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,440 Harrison where she says again, "Is 438 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,279 Olivia a good guy? One of the good 439 00:15:27,279 --> 00:15:28,639 guys?" And he says, "She's not one of 440 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,519 the good guys, she's the best guy." That 441 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:34,240 happens. So these are like our last 442 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,839 things where we sort of keep our stories 443 00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:37,120 alive. 444 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,800 Then you see Liv standing at her 445 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,639 television set watching that same press 446 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:42,639 conference again, press conference that 447 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:46,000 we knew. And Cyrus comes in and says, 448 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,480 "He wants to see you. We all know who he 449 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,839 is. We all understand what's going on." 450 00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:54,800 And she says, "You better tell the 451 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,240 president of the United States that he 452 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,399 better hope to God she doesn't want to 453 00:15:58,399 --> 00:15:59,279 come forward with her story because 454 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:01,839 Amanda Tanner just became my client." 455 00:16:01,839 --> 00:16:04,240 Which basically sets in motion the rest 456 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,759 of our season. 457 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:07,360 You know, we've solved our case, but 458 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,959 then we've said, "Here's where we're 459 00:16:08,959 --> 00:16:11,920 going forever." 460 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,279 And you know, we haven't solved anything 461 00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:14,800 with Amanda Tanner. We haven't even seen 462 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,519 her since she left the the on the 463 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,680 elevator. Oh, no, in the hotel in the 464 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,639 hospital room, but we do know that she's 465 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:24,880 okay and that she's now Olivia's client 466 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,160 and that she's going to be protected and 467 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,240 that we have a giant launching point for 468 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,440 wherever we're going next. 469 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,160 Yeah. 470 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,759 So, at the end, you know, you have this 471 00:16:31,759 --> 00:16:33,600 moment where Olivia tells Cyrus that, 472 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,800 you know, he better hope that Amanda 473 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,560 Tanner doesn't want to come forward with 474 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,160 her story. And we understand that while 475 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,240 we've closed a story for the episode, 476 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,920 we've launched into a story that's going 477 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,360 to take us through the season. 478 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,720 And we've left the audience with 479 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,079 something that makes them lean forward 480 00:16:46,079 --> 00:16:47,680 and go, man, I wonder what's going to 481 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,720 happen next. 482 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,240 And you, you know, it doesn't have to 483 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,320 be, you know, as big as I'm going to 484 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,320 take on the White House to be your 485 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,680 story, but it does need to be something 486 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,920 that makes people feel interested. And 487 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,440 it really shouldn't be something that 488 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,120 comes out of nowhere. You know, I've 489 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,120 seen pilots where, you know, you have a 490 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,360 whole show happen and then the suddenly 491 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:06,559 at the end something that comes 492 00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:08,000 literally out of nowhere that has 493 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,120 nothing to do with anything you've been 494 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:10,799 watching happens and it feels very 495 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:12,640 jarring instead of exciting. And you 496 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,319 want something that doesn't feel you 497 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,240 want it to feel organic. It can be 498 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,799 surprising, but it should feel organic. 499 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:20,480 And it's always helpful when that 500 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,160 happens. The other thing to really think 501 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,679 about is that if you really look at 502 00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:26,559 this, the end of the pilot truly is when 503 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:28,319 Olivia holds Steven's hand. Um, no, is 504 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,200 when Olivia sees um, Sully in the prison 505 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,960 and he says, you know, his name is John 506 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,559 Latimer and I do love him. That's really 507 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,160 the end because he's finally admitted 508 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,919 who he is. We know that this, you know, 509 00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:40,400 the story is going to be um, fine. He's 510 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,000 going to admit his alibi, but then we 511 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,600 need sort of the wrap-up beats. We need 512 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,840 the satisfaction of seeing Sully in his 513 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,679 uniform and coming forward. We need the 514 00:17:47,679 --> 00:17:49,440 satisfaction of seeing Abby and Steven 515 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,360 as Abby feels good about what's happened 516 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:53,280 as she watches this thing go down. And 517 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,039 we need to see Quinn and Harrison 518 00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:56,480 because we saw them in the beginning. 519 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,320 And we need to see Quinn's decision 520 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,000 about how she feels about what's gone 521 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,720 on. 522 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,039 And you see that she's happy and she 523 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:05,120 likes it there and she's going to stay. 524 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,200 You know, I think she says gladiator in 525 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,360 a suit at the end and you realize like 526 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:10,960 she feels like she's one of them now or 527 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,400 at least she wants to be 528 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,240 and then you go to Olivia. So it's a 529 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,440 very simple thing and then just for the 530 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,120 record you'll note that she turn Olivia 531 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:20,559 turns off the television at the end and 532 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:22,799 the screen goes black and then in the 533 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:24,320 next episode it starts with her turning 534 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,679 on the television and the screen comes 535 00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:27,440 up. Like that's how we start and end and 536 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:28,080 start 537 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,919 just for holding the audience in. 538 00:18:31,919 --> 00:18:34,640 Really the thing to remember is that the 539 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,120 stuff that you set up in your first and 540 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:38,880 second act really need to have 541 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,120 resolution. You don't want to have 542 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:42,559 things here that don't have any 543 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,360 resolution. even even the stuff that 544 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,840 you're introducing, the idea that Olivia 545 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,840 um solves cases, that she solves cases 546 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,440 fast, that she's slightly um under the 547 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,880 radar of the government, that you know 548 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,039 there she says the FBI is sick of me. 549 00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:58,480 You know, we come back to the place 550 00:18:58,480 --> 00:18:59,440 where now she's going to take on the 551 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,080 White House. Everything sort of has to 552 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,679 feed into one another. Everything you 553 00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:05,679 learn about Olivia tells you more about 554 00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:07,679 who she is. You don't know very much 555 00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:08,960 about Huck. You don't know very much 556 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,799 about um Harrison. You don't know very 557 00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:12,559 much about Abby, but everything you 558 00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,240 learn about them by the way they behave, 559 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,080 by their dialogue, is supposed to tell 560 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,559 you who they are. And I really tried to 561 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:20,400 go through and hone everyone's dialogue 562 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,799 so that what they said told you who they 563 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:23,600 were 564 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,120 and you should really just be looking at 565 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,280 those kinds of things and the shape of 566 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,200 your pilot. Like when I say that four 567 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,600 was problematic, you can see, you know, 568 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,000 from this that four was problematic. See 569 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,160 how many things happen in four versus 570 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,720 three versus two versus one. I packed a 571 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 lot of things in there and I I you know 572 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,760 it worked. It ended up working in the 573 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,600 end, but it was a very very hard thing 574 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,280 to balance 575 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:48,720 and you really have to figure out how 576 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:49,919 you're going to make all those things 577 00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:55,559 work. And that's that's a show. 1 00:00:12,559 --> 00:00:14,960 I'm the kind of person who doesn't like 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,199 to move forward until I'm happy with 3 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:20,400 what I already have. So, I'll spend a 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,119 day writing, say I'll write like 10 or 5 00:00:23,119 --> 00:00:26,400 15 pages, and then before I can move on 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,720 the next morning, I have to make sure 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,439 that the 15 pages I wrote is perfect for 8 00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:33,600 me and then I move forward because I 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,600 don't ever like to then finish a script 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,000 and then have to go back. So, to me, 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,000 it's I never even really think about it 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,320 as editing or rewriting, but clearly it 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,079 is. You just want those pages that 14 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:45,920 you've done to be perfect and then you 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,520 can move forward and those pages have to 16 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:48,800 be perfect and then you move forward and 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,719 those pages have to be perfect. So that 18 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:52,800 when you get to fade out, you don't have 19 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,559 to do anything else. To me, that's 20 00:00:54,559 --> 00:00:57,360 always the best feeling. And also 21 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,680 because I'm a fast writer, it it helps 22 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,840 to continuously do that. Go back and 23 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,000 hone and make everything work because it 24 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,080 keeps everything fresh in your head. and 25 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,720 then you don't end up um in some place 26 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:09,920 where you wrote something really fast 27 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,320 and then when by the time you go back, 28 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,479 you've you've already sort of lost the 29 00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:16,560 thing that was you were doing. It's just 30 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,040 helpful for me when I'm sort of going 31 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,479 back and editing before I can move 32 00:01:20,479 --> 00:01:22,000 forward. You know, you want to make sure 33 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,520 the scenes resonate. You want to make 34 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,240 sure the dialogue is as original as you 35 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,080 can possibly make it. You know, I like 36 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:29,840 to go through and hone. I don't like the 37 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,520 characters to say too much. Like the 38 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,360 overly 39 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,320 the overly like verbose dialogue can 40 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,000 really be a problem. And while my 41 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,000 characters talk a lot, I try to go 42 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,960 through and keep it spare for them. Even 43 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:44,479 the ones where they have huge 44 00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:46,159 monologues, they're they're spare huge 45 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:48,000 monologues. Um, you want to make sure 46 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,920 that all of your scenes are sort of set 47 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,759 in the right place in terms of how 48 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:53,600 you're describing them. I like to go 49 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,280 through and I like to remove the stage 50 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,840 direction that I put in that suggests 51 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,759 how the actor should act something 52 00:01:59,759 --> 00:02:02,560 versus where they are in space and 53 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,320 what's going on with them. I think you 54 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,080 know when the pages that you're writing 55 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,360 are right. When when you get ready to go 56 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,360 forward, there are no more sort of 57 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,959 unanswered questions or mistakes left 58 00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:19,200 behind. you know, you're going forward 59 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,400 and you're not thinking, well, this 60 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,560 scene's not going to work or these beats 61 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,720 aren't going to work or how can I tell 62 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,640 this part of the story if we haven't 63 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:30,400 discussed blank already. So, you know, 64 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,560 in the pilot episode of Scandal, you 65 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,800 couldn't possibly have gone to act two 66 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,840 and um had them start investigating if I 67 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,040 didn't have Sully come in at the very 68 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,840 end of act one. or if we hadn't 69 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,000 introduced Quinn the way we had, we 70 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,360 would not have really been able to set 71 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,519 up this idea that she was worshipful of 72 00:02:49,519 --> 00:02:51,280 Olivia Pope. So I, you know, you'd have 73 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:52,879 to come up with a way of really bringing 74 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:55,280 Quinn in and really building up that 75 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,200 scene. You you want to make sure that 76 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,640 the scenes you have really resonate so 77 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,239 that when you move forward, they're, you 78 00:03:02,239 --> 00:03:04,239 know, they're all sort of falling into 79 00:03:04,239 --> 00:03:07,239 place. 80 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,159 There are two ways that I sort of like 81 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:17,120 hear my scripts. One, when I'm writing a 82 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,000 script, I say all the dialogue out loud 83 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,640 while I'm writing it. Now, I think I've 84 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:24,800 already said that I wear headphones. I 85 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,640 wear noise, big giant noise cancelling 86 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:28,319 headphones on my head while I'm writing 87 00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:30,400 and there's usually music blaring in my 88 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,560 ears while I'm writing. So, I can't hear 89 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,120 myself saying all the dialogue, but I 90 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,280 can feel myself saying all the dialogue. 91 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,360 So basically, I'm acting the entire 92 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,720 script out as I'm doing it. I can't hear 93 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,480 it, but the poor people who are sitting 94 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,400 right outside my office can hear it. So 95 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,239 they've they've experienced this 96 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:51,120 terrible acting that I've been doing. I 97 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,120 do it because it's fun, but I also do it 98 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:54,959 because it's how I know the scenes are 99 00:03:54,959 --> 00:03:58,080 working. I think when I'm writing and I 100 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,400 have my headphones on and I'm I'm saying 101 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,959 all the dialogue out loud, basically I'm 102 00:04:02,959 --> 00:04:06,560 acting out the show. I mean, any kid who 103 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,840 has put up tied a pillowcase around 104 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,439 their shoulders and pretended that they 105 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:13,519 were a superhero knows what I'm talking 106 00:04:13,519 --> 00:04:16,160 about. Like, I'm play acting the entire 107 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,600 thing. I'm playing every character in 108 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,759 Scandal and I'm doing the whole show 109 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:22,720 from beginning to end as I write it. 110 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,479 And I'm imagining that I'm those 111 00:04:24,479 --> 00:04:26,000 characters. 112 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,880 It works. It sounds silly, but it works. 113 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,199 It's how I know the things are true. I 114 00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:32,639 don't have to hear it because it's sort 115 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:34,800 of like being somebody who can't sing 116 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,960 trying to sing a Broadway show. Not 117 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,919 good. I'm not an actor. But it does 118 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:42,720 allow me to to feel my way through the 119 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,120 show and to imagine, you know, I'm a DC 120 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:46,880 fixer living in Washington. I'm Cyrus 121 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,040 Bean. I'm I'm, you know, Melly Grant. 122 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,040 Whatever it is. I get to stand in the 123 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,040 character shoes a little bit more. It's 124 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,800 how I know the pacing feels right. It's 125 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,800 how I know the dialogue is right. It's 126 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,000 how I know if a fight feels true or um 127 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,479 an emotional monologue is actually 128 00:05:02,479 --> 00:05:04,800 emotional. It's how I know if something 129 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,880 is funny or not. And to me, if I can't 130 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,720 say it out loud and have it feel like 131 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,520 natural conversation, then I know 132 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,800 there's a problem. We also um do writer 133 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,639 table reads for every draft of a script 134 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:21,440 that we do um for the shows. So we'll 135 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,360 sit around the room as you know all the 136 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:24,720 writers and we'll read those scripts 137 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,479 aloud and everyone will play a part 138 00:05:26,479 --> 00:05:28,560 except for me. I just listen. Someone 139 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,240 will read the stage directions. 140 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:31,759 Everybody takes a part. Everybody acts 141 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:33,280 it out and everybody throws themselves 142 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:34,560 into it and acts as hard as they 143 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,960 possibly can. That for me is really 144 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,639 valuable because then I can really hear 145 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:41,840 a script and figure out what's wrong. 146 00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:45,039 Oddly plotwise. That's when I know, oh, 147 00:05:45,039 --> 00:05:46,240 we need to cut this scene or we need to 148 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:47,680 move this scene here or that scene 149 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,960 there. Somehow that helps me. It's much 150 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,840 more helpful for me than to sit and read 151 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:56,400 someone's script and give them notes. 152 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,240 Hearing a script somehow brings it to 153 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,440 life in a way and makes it more 154 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,919 threedimensional for me. And I can very 155 00:06:03,919 --> 00:06:05,680 quickly tell you what's wrong with it 156 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,120 much more so than if I'm just reading 157 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,600 something on a page. Which is why we 158 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,600 also then have actor table reads for 159 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,360 every single script that we do because 160 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:14,960 that also is sort of like the third 161 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,520 layer um to make sure that it all works. 162 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,199 a really good example of how things can 163 00:06:21,199 --> 00:06:23,759 change. We did exa we did an episode for 164 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:28,160 scandal that was about Abby discovering 165 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,360 that Cyrus was sort of seeing seeing 166 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,160 another candidate behind Fitz's back and 167 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:35,680 it was the Frank where he discovered 168 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,160 Frankie Vargas and Abby sort of knew she 169 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,600 had this information and she knew that 170 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,319 she could use it against Cyrus and take 171 00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:44,720 his job and she's sort of trying to 172 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,639 decide whether or not she's ready to be 173 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:49,680 a monster and she says you know 174 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,360 shouldn't I do this because if I don't 175 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,960 somebody else will do it. And but she 176 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,319 says, "How do the monsters sleep at 177 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:55,840 night?" And it's one of my favorite 178 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:57,440 episodes because it's really this giant 179 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,000 evolution for this character. The first 180 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,080 draft of that episode that came in that 181 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,280 we read at the writer's table read, Abby 182 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,240 ended up with Cyrus's job, but somehow 183 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,080 the way and it was literally the 184 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,840 perspective from which it was written. 185 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,400 Abby didn't 186 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,319 Abby didn't do any of those things that 187 00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:18,720 got her the job. they happened to her as 188 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,039 opposed to her being her own agent of 189 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:24,800 change. And so, and it wasn't it it was 190 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,199 subtle, but it was very clean that like 191 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:29,599 Fitz chose to give her the job. Somebody 192 00:07:29,599 --> 00:07:31,520 else chose to help her make a decision. 193 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,759 She didn't do any of the things herself, 194 00:07:33,759 --> 00:07:36,639 and it didn't work. And I thought it has 195 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:38,240 to be her conscious decision that she's 196 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,400 wrestling with. Reading things out loud 197 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,000 really changes things. It's It was sort 198 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,639 of the way even the language laid out 199 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:46,800 because you don't It was subtle. It 200 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,280 really was a subtle um layering of 201 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,880 things because Abby was doing all of the 202 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,479 same things, but when you hear it out 203 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:54,400 loud and you're hearing what's said and 204 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,400 how it said, suddenly you realize that 205 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,039 she was being much more passive than it 206 00:07:59,039 --> 00:08:01,039 seemed. And so, you know, we had to 207 00:08:01,039 --> 00:08:04,440 change the language. 208 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,759 When you're going through your script 209 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:12,000 and you're looking for things to cut, I 210 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,879 often try to cut the things that don't 211 00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:17,919 affect your plot and don't affect your 212 00:08:17,919 --> 00:08:20,240 character arc. You know, you really, if 213 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,520 you're telling a story about um solving 214 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,879 a case, you know, if there's a case 215 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:27,520 involved in your show, you can't cut 216 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,599 anything that's invol that requires you 217 00:08:29,599 --> 00:08:31,759 to solve the case obviously or your 218 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:33,039 audience won't understand what's going 219 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,680 on. If you're talking about a character 220 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:37,760 arc, if you're talking about, you know, 221 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,440 the crown and whether or not, you know, 222 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:40,399 you're watching the crown and you're 223 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:41,519 talking about the crown and whether or 224 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:43,760 not she's going to uh make it through 225 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,760 her coronation or something, you can't 226 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,920 cut the scenes that are about her fears 227 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,240 and her worries and her concerns because 228 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,399 those scenes are the scenes that really 229 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:55,360 make this the episode resonate. You you 230 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,120 have to really think about what are the 231 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,720 things that are most important. If this 232 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,240 wasn't in the show, could the story 233 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,800 still be told? which means that what you 234 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,800 end up cutting are your darlings because 235 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,560 that's why they're there. You've written 236 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:07,600 these scenes that you think are 237 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,440 delightful and wonderful and isn't this 238 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,600 funny and isn't this cute and isn't 239 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,040 this, you know, sharp and isn't this 240 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,040 witty. That's why they're in this in the 241 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,640 script. They don't have anything to do 242 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:17,760 with the plot. They don't necessarily 243 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:18,720 have anything to do with the character, 244 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,240 but you have you're having a hard time 245 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,600 getting rid of them because they're so 246 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,720 fabulously written. I have a whole file 247 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,640 folder full of those scenes and those 248 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,040 moments that I keep because I think, 249 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,000 well, maybe I can use them someday. And 250 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,360 telling myself that I can use them 251 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,600 someday is what helps me. I'm never 252 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,279 going to use them, but it helps me to 253 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:42,040 think that maybe one day I'll use them. 254 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,120 When I write a draft of a pilot and I'm 255 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,120 looking for notes, for instance, 256 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,880 Scandal, the first person I showed it to 257 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,480 was my producing partner, Betsy Beers, 258 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,519 because I wanted to know what she 259 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:55,760 thought of it. So, I showed it to her 260 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,480 and I showed it to a couple of writers 261 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,640 who work, you know, in Shaoland that I 262 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,080 know and love and really like their 263 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,640 opinion. It's nice to have someone step 264 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,279 outside of what you're doing and see 265 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,279 what's going on. And so, they gave me 266 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:10,959 really interesting notes. Some of them, 267 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:13,279 you know, most of them were small, but 268 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:14,880 they were things like, I don't 269 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,519 understand what's happening, you know, 270 00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:21,279 when Olivia is going to see David Rosen, 271 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:22,720 you know, what are what is she asking 272 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,399 for and why? And so then you would learn 273 00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:26,800 to clarify why does she need the 48 274 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,440 hours? And it was, you know, she needed 275 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,079 it for these particular reasons. It it 276 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,079 was tiny clarifications that really sort 277 00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:36,399 of honed things down and helped them. 278 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,920 Um, it was adding the the interesting 279 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,360 moment where Abby goes to the museum to 280 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,680 meet the young woman to say, "Tell me 281 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:49,600 what went on between um, Paige and and 282 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,040 this guy that she was seeing." Like, 283 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,959 what? Why didn't she go to the thing you 284 00:10:52,959 --> 00:10:54,560 thought she was going to? And getting 285 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,399 the information on Paige, you needed to 286 00:10:56,399 --> 00:10:57,680 see that scene so you could understand 287 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:59,519 what was happening. Those notes are 288 00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:01,200 really invaluable and really great to 289 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,839 have. I think it's really important to 290 00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:06,959 not apologize or explain or discuss your 291 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:09,120 script before you give it to somebody 292 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:10,640 because then you're already handing them 293 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,120 a preconceived notion of something. I 294 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,600 don't even say it's about blank. I just 295 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,320 say here's a script because otherwise 296 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,440 you're not getting a true reading. If I 297 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:22,800 handed them a script and said it's about 298 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,360 a DC fixer um and she's having an affair 299 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,360 with the president, they go in reading 300 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,680 the script with that information. So, 301 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,360 when you hand someone a script, you want 302 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,760 to hand them your script to read with as 303 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,920 blank a slate as possible. Don't 304 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,480 apologize. Don't ask for, you know, 305 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,320 don't say, "I'm so sorry. It's not 306 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:41,760 complete, or I'm not sure it's going to 307 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,360 be good enough." Don't give them 308 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,480 information about it. Don't tell them 309 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,480 what it's about. Don't give them your 310 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,720 opinions. Don't ask them to look for 311 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,440 specific things. Just hand it over. And 312 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:52,720 then when they're done reading it, ask 313 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,320 them what they understood. Ask them what 314 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:55,920 they thought it was about. Ask them what 315 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,079 was confusing. and then listen to what 316 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:01,200 they have to say without answering their 317 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,160 notes with your answers. I think it's 318 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,399 really important when people give you 319 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:08,000 notes to not say, "Well, I did that 320 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000 because bl, you know, blah blah blah or 321 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,079 that happened because blah blah blah." 322 00:12:12,079 --> 00:12:14,000 It doesn't matter. If somebody is giving 323 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000 you a note, what they're really saying 324 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,079 is, "I didn't understand why you did 325 00:12:18,079 --> 00:12:19,600 something." 326 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,079 You know, you have to I'm fascinated by 327 00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:24,079 the number of people who get notes and 328 00:12:24,079 --> 00:12:27,600 don't understand that the note means 329 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,079 whatever you did wasn't clear. It 330 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:32,240 doesn't mean, you know, your idea is not 331 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,880 a good one or, you know, this doesn't 332 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,320 work. They're not saying you're stupid. 333 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,079 They just mean whatever you did wasn't 334 00:12:38,079 --> 00:12:40,880 clear. And that does that doesn't mean 335 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,920 you shouldn't um stick to your guns on 336 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,079 the creative idea behind it. It just 337 00:12:46,079 --> 00:12:47,360 means you need to make it clearer so 338 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,279 that they understand it. 339 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,040 I think what's really important when you 340 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,720 get notes is to remember that people 341 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,800 aren't necessarily experts at giving 342 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,279 notes. Not even executives are experts 343 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:01,839 at giving notes. And they're as nervous 344 00:13:01,839 --> 00:13:04,800 to offend you as you are nervous about 345 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,839 being offended. So sometimes it's this 346 00:13:07,839 --> 00:13:10,160 very strange dance. So a note can be 347 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,399 posed as a question. We were wondering 348 00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:14,560 why they're not asking you a question 349 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,959 for real. They're giving you a note. So, 350 00:13:16,959 --> 00:13:19,839 there's never a question involved. Um, 351 00:13:19,839 --> 00:13:21,680 sometimes they'll pitch you a solution 352 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,279 instead of telling you what the problem 353 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:26,959 is. That solution really is your it's 354 00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:28,720 your job then to figure out what the 355 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,560 problem is. It's not to just take 356 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:32,959 whatever solution they give you. Um, or 357 00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:34,240 they'll tell you what the problem is 358 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,560 flat out and you may not agree with what 359 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,800 the problem is, but you need to listen 360 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,399 to what they're saying the problem is 361 00:13:40,399 --> 00:13:42,320 and then figure out what it is they 362 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,880 don't understand about your script. I 363 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,639 think every note you get has to come 364 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:48,959 down to what don't they understand about 365 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:53,040 my script? And if it's if somebody says 366 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,279 the whole thing moves too slowly and 367 00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:57,440 your thought is well it's not supposed 368 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,839 to move too slow and they don't 369 00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:00,959 understand that my script moves 370 00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:02,720 lightning fast. Well then your script 371 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,320 doesn't move move lightning fast. It 372 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,519 just doesn't. If they're not 373 00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:06,720 understanding that the script's moving 374 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,560 lightning fast then it's probably not 375 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,959 moving in a lightning fast way. But 376 00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:12,959 there are, you know, you have to really 377 00:14:12,959 --> 00:14:14,240 hear what someone's saying and be 378 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,639 willing to take it in and not respond, 379 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,320 not be worried about responding to their 380 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,639 notes in the moment. Just sort of taking 381 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:23,360 all the notes in and saying thank you 382 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,120 and then going away and figuring out 383 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,240 what you're going to do. Whether it's 384 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,160 the notes are from a friend or from an 385 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,240 executive. You don't respond to the 386 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,639 notes when you get them. You say, "Thank 387 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,040 you so much. This is really helpful." 388 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,880 Because that allows your brain a chance 389 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,199 to absorb the notes. No one's trying to 390 00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:40,880 insult you. they're all trying to make 391 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,959 help you make your work better. And if 392 00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:44,639 you approach it from that perspective in 393 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:46,240 your head that everybody just wants to 394 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,800 help you make something better, then it 395 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,880 becomes a very very productive process. 396 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,120 I think 397 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,199 so. When we made the original pilot of 398 00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:02,000 Grey's Anatomy, Alex Karev was not one 399 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,760 of the characters on the show. He didn't 400 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,959 exist. And I was perfectly happy with 401 00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:08,720 that concept. But then the head of the 402 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,360 network, Steve McFersonen, said, "You 403 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,000 know, you need a guy. You need a guy in 404 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,399 turn who's kind of a macho presence on 405 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:18,320 the show. You don't have that right now. 406 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:19,440 You know, you have Christina, you have 407 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,120 Meredith, you Izzy, you have George. You 408 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,160 need a guy who's like just a jerk, 409 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,959 maybe." And I think he thought he would 410 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:28,240 be somebody's love interest. I'm not 411 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:29,360 sure what he thought he was going to be, 412 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,480 but he just wanted that sort of macho, 413 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,920 overly confident, jerky kind of guy. And 414 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,600 he was right. we needed that sort of 415 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,680 male surgeon that you hear about all the 416 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:42,959 time. And the more I thought about it, 417 00:15:42,959 --> 00:15:46,639 the more I agreed. And so I sat down and 418 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:49,360 I looked at the pilot, really looked at 419 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,639 the script, really looked at the pilot 420 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:53,440 and thought, how can we find ways to 421 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,480 insert somebody into this show that's 422 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,120 already been filmed, by the way, that to 423 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,279 make it feel organic? 424 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:03,120 And, you know, some of it was just 425 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,639 pickup shots. We did a couple of shots 426 00:16:04,639 --> 00:16:07,040 to put him in the gallery scene with the 427 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,320 kids while they were watching the 428 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,680 appendecttomy happen. We shot a shot of 429 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,720 him in the spinound O when Richard was 430 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,759 saying his opening O speech. We did a 431 00:16:17,759 --> 00:16:22,399 couple of those. Then we um added in a 432 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:24,560 couple of scenes. A scene where he calls 433 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,079 Meredith, he insults Meredith by calling 434 00:16:26,079 --> 00:16:29,680 her a nurse. Um a scene where he insults 435 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:30,959 her again. So, a couple of scenes where 436 00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:32,959 he's just a little bit jerky. And then 437 00:16:32,959 --> 00:16:36,160 there's one big scene that we put in 438 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,399 where Meredith is sort of challenged by 439 00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:39,759 Richard. Well, everybody's sort of 440 00:16:39,759 --> 00:16:41,839 challenged by Richard to say what the 441 00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:44,800 common causes of posttop fever are. And 442 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,360 Alex is humiliated and Meredith wins 443 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,440 that sort of moment. 444 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,560 That was key because you had a victory 445 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,959 for her over the jerky guy. You 446 00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:56,560 introduced the character. You knew who 447 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,839 he was and it added something very 448 00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:02,240 specific to the show. In the first 449 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,319 version, the victories don't belong to 450 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,640 Meredith. They're sort of a general look 451 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,199 at these residents and they're kind of 452 00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:12,480 all having a feeling of victory. And in 453 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,000 the one with Alex, the victories really 454 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,120 belong to Meredith. She sort of bests 455 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:21,360 Alex and then goes into that surgery. 456 00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:23,120 Whereas before, it was sort of an Izzy 457 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,240 moment and people felt generally good. 458 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,799 It was non-specific and left you feeling 459 00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:32,320 a little a little less excited, I think, 460 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,640 than you do when you watch it happen to 461 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,720 Meredith. Especially given that we gave 462 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,120 Meredith voice over. It's very focused 463 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:42,559 on her and who she is. You need that in 464 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:44,880 order to follow our main character's 465 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,200 journey to where it needs to go. I had 466 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,880 to lift other things from the show in 467 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,200 order to make it work, but now I can't 468 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,960 even remember what those things totally 469 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,440 were. And I'm really glad we did it 470 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,919 because it it I mean obviously 13 471 00:17:57,919 --> 00:18:00,320 seasons later there's Alex Karev, but it 472 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,720 also just brought something different, a 473 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,400 different energy to the show that was 474 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,600 necessary. It was a really good call. I 475 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,960 think it's probably the best note I've 476 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,640 ever gotten. Adding him in was possibly 477 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,080 the smartest thing we ever got to do. 478 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,679 There was always a point for me in the 479 00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:25,440 um writing and rewriting and editing 480 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,840 process of a script when I realize that 481 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,840 the script is done, that there's nothing 482 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,880 else I can do, that there's no more to 483 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,039 be said. And sometimes I'll sort of go 484 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:36,480 through it again and again and like look 485 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,320 at it and sort of try to tweak 486 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,559 something, but after a while you just 487 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,559 realize it's cooked. Like it's been 488 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,760 cooked, hand it over. That's always sort 489 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,000 of the best moment in a weird way, like 490 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,440 you're sending your baby to school 491 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,120 almost. 492 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:52,799 I look forward to that. Like I'm not a 493 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:54,559 person who hangs on to a script way too 494 00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:56,720 long and doesn't want to give it away. I 495 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,400 am thrilled when you can put a script on 496 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,080 its feet and watch it get shot and have 497 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,840 it come out of the editing room. It's 498 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,400 exciting. 1 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:13,759 the thing about your pilot and when 2 00:00:13,759 --> 00:00:15,040 you're planning a series, the thing that 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,440 you really need to understand and know 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,359 is that in the first se of your show, 5 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:23,600 you made this pilot and then you get to 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,920 episode two. And a lot of people don't 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,599 understand what episode two is. Episode 8 00:00:29,599 --> 00:00:33,760 two is just episode one all over again. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,040 You don't make some completely different 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,600 show. You basically need to reiterate 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,640 what episode 1 was in a new way, but 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,879 it's still episode 1 all over again. 13 00:00:44,879 --> 00:00:46,960 Don't veer off course. Don't go in a 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,440 whole new direction. Don't tell us, 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,960 "Wait a minute. It's not a show about 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,520 scandals. It's a show about racetracks." 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,480 It's the same show all over again. 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,960 Olivia Pope, she's got scandals. She's 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,320 having an affair with the president. 20 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,960 It's a secret. Quinn's new. There's a 21 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,240 case of the week. Literally, same show. 22 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,600 You need to do that so that people 23 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,200 understand what they're watching and so 24 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,720 they feel like they can trust what 25 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,240 they've seen and that they want to come 26 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,240 back. 27 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:21,200 When you make a show, you promise the 28 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,960 audience something. You promise the 29 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,240 audience that they're going to see a 30 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,080 show about uh DC fixer who is involved 31 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:29,600 in a scandalous relationship with the 32 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,079 president of the United States. You need 33 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:34,240 to fulfill the promise of that show 34 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,759 every week. You can't take that away 35 00:01:37,759 --> 00:01:40,079 from them. You can't deny them that. You 36 00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:42,799 can't suddenly not show them that show. 37 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:44,640 You and if you're going to change what 38 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,079 the promise of premise of that show is 39 00:01:46,079 --> 00:01:48,240 and the promise of that show is, you 40 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,399 have to do it in a very smart way and 41 00:01:50,399 --> 00:01:52,960 you have to do it over time. You have to 42 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,640 give them what they've asked for and 43 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,399 then change the story maybe in the next 44 00:01:56,399 --> 00:01:58,960 season. You can't just do it suddenly. 45 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,360 Grays, same thing. You have to give them 46 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,799 what you've promised. People get very um 47 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:06,479 disappointed in you if you say, "I'm 48 00:02:06,479 --> 00:02:08,160 going to give you a show about the Queen 49 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,000 of England, the Crown." and then you 50 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,959 give them a show about the guy that 51 00:02:12,959 --> 00:02:15,920 works in the basement of the castle. You 52 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:16,959 know, that's not what they signed up 53 00:02:16,959 --> 00:02:18,560 for. People want their promise 54 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,440 fulfilled. So, if you know that the 55 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,520 promise of your show is she's a DC fixer 56 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,280 who's engaged in an illicit affair with 57 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:26,480 the president of the United States, 58 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,560 that's the promise of our show. You just 59 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,080 have to check in with yourself every 60 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,480 episode as you break story. Are we 61 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,920 talking about a DC fixer who's engaged 62 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:35,280 in elicit, you know, illicit 63 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,760 relationship? Yes or no? If you're 64 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,840 veering off course, which it's easy to 65 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,840 do, you either have to be doing so 66 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,239 consciously or you need to fix it. 67 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:48,400 We didn't do so. I mean, we didn't do it 68 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,560 at all, I think, in the first season of 69 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,959 Scandal until we got to the end when we 70 00:02:52,959 --> 00:02:55,280 veered off the course of fixing somebody 71 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,920 else's scandal in order to flash back to 72 00:02:57,920 --> 00:02:59,599 show you what had happened between Fitz 73 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,159 and Liv. And that was purposeful because 74 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:04,000 we knew that we it was time to tell that 75 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,840 story to catch everybody up to where we 76 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,159 were emotionally. 77 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:09,599 But that was a conscious choice and we 78 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:11,360 had earned that right by then. But you 79 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,440 need to earn it. You have to get your 80 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,319 audience to go with you. People watch 81 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:18,319 one out of every four episodes that you 82 00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,480 create that you write. So they don't see 83 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,560 every single thing sometimes. And you 84 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,239 want to make sure that they know what 85 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:25,519 they're watching and that they love it 86 00:03:25,519 --> 00:03:28,159 enough to go back and binge watch so 87 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:30,560 that they're there for you. That's 88 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,560 important. 89 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,080 We'll have these big brainstorming 90 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,760 sessions at the beginning of a season 91 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,440 and I always try to say that every idea 92 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,239 we have should be used that season so 93 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:49,920 that when we end the season, we should 94 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:51,840 walk away having no idea what we're 95 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,879 going to do the next season. Um, I 96 00:03:54,879 --> 00:03:56,720 remember the first season of Scandal, 97 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,159 you know, we ended that season with, 98 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,720 "Who is Quinn Perkins?" And I remember 99 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,720 the studio on the network saying to me, 100 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,560 "Who is Quinn Perkins?" and me saying, 101 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,080 "Well, when you pick us up, you'll find 102 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,280 out. Give us a second season." And they 103 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,959 gave us a second season. And I remember 104 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:13,360 sending a memo out to all my new writers 105 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,599 saying, "Great. We'll see you on this 106 00:04:15,599 --> 00:04:17,759 day. And by the way, if anybody has any 107 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:19,680 ideas who Quinn Perkins is, that would 108 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,359 be awesome because we really do need to 109 00:04:21,359 --> 00:04:23,520 know because none of us have any idea. 110 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,040 And it was great because we really did 111 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,639 end the season going, we need to end it 112 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:29,520 on something exciting, but none of us 113 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,440 have any clue who Quinn Perkins is or 114 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,759 what that story is going to be. You want 115 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:35,120 to sort of leave it all on the table 116 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,479 when you walk away at the end of a 117 00:04:36,479 --> 00:04:39,600 season. Otherwise, what are you saving 118 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,000 it for? I mean, you might not get a next 119 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,639 season, so don't save it. 120 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,160 I think this might be one of my most 121 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,600 important points. So, I'm going to sit 122 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:55,840 up for it. 123 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,639 If you put something in your show, there 124 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:00,560 better be a reason for it. I don't care 125 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,320 what it is. I don't care if you put a 126 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,240 puppy in your show. We put a puppy in 127 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,680 Grays. What did we do with that puppy? 128 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,400 We killed that puppy. You put a puppy in 129 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,240 your show, you better kill that puppy. 130 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,240 You don't put something in your show for 131 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,560 no reason whatsoever. I watch this 132 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:15,919 happen again and again and it drives me 133 00:05:15,919 --> 00:05:18,800 crazy. Stories have to have a reason and 134 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,400 the things that you use in your stories 135 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,759 have to be there for a reason. 136 00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:24,960 Everything should exist for a point. You 137 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,440 know, we never just throw something in 138 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,000 our show and then it doesn't pay off. 139 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,000 You know, the planting of something in a 140 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,919 story, the the appearance of something, 141 00:05:33,919 --> 00:05:35,680 the planting of something in a story and 142 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,600 the payoff of something in a story are 143 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,840 kind of what I live for. You know, we 144 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,919 get really excited when I don't care if 145 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:43,520 it's four seasons later when we say, 146 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:44,800 "Oh, we're going to pay off this 147 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,080 moment." It's the best thing ever. Um, 148 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,479 planting and payoff are what story is 149 00:05:50,479 --> 00:05:54,479 really all about. And it's that old um 150 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:56,400 theater statement, if there's a gun on 151 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,160 the wall, at some point in that play, 152 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,320 that gun is going to go off. That is 153 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,360 really what storytelling needs in order 154 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,360 to work. So, you can't have a character 155 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,520 call somebody sweet baby in the pilot of 156 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,759 Scandal and not have it come back at 157 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:13,680 some point to explain to you what sweet 158 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,840 baby means. You can't have a bottle of 159 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,080 hooch and then not have it come back to 160 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,319 bring you full circle to understand why 161 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:22,800 that bottle of hooch means so much. Why 162 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,800 is it there? Why are you using this to 163 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,639 tell story? How is it affecting the 164 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:28,720 characters? If you bring something in, 165 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,639 if you plant something in your show, it 166 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:33,280 better pay off. It's also just a really 167 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,160 good way of making your story feel like 168 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,440 it has a point. Even when you're having 169 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,680 a hard time figuring out every aspect of 170 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,639 it, it gives you a shape. 171 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,360 I think that part of what helps you have 172 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,120 a long lasting series or what can help 173 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,600 you have a long-lasting series is the 174 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,520 ability to be versatile and um make 175 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,080 adjustments when necessary. 176 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,840 Because I think part of at least what's 177 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:09,120 helped me is thinking of every season of 178 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,560 every show as being a new show almost 179 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880 with the same characters, but just not 180 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,479 thinking, oh, I have to do the same show 181 00:07:16,479 --> 00:07:19,199 I did last season. So, we never get old. 182 00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:21,919 I think of how can it look different um 183 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:24,000 visually, how can we use different kinds 184 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,160 of music? How are we going to tell story 185 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:27,440 differently? What are we going to do 186 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,240 about pacing? What about tone? Um, how 187 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:31,520 are the character arcs going to be 188 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,560 completely different? How are my 189 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,720 characters going to grow and change? I 190 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,759 think the characters should change over 191 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:39,039 the course of time. They shouldn't 192 00:07:39,039 --> 00:07:40,400 remain the same people that they've 193 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,280 always been cuz that's boring. I feel 194 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,520 like you want to see an evolution. So, 195 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,840 to me, having your characters evolve 196 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,919 helps the show keep going because people 197 00:07:49,919 --> 00:07:51,759 want to watch that happen as opposed to 198 00:07:51,759 --> 00:07:53,680 them becoming a little bit bored by 199 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,120 seeing the same thing over and over and 200 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,639 over again. 201 00:07:56,639 --> 00:07:58,879 Scandal was a show that really did start 202 00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:02,000 out having a procedural element. And I 203 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,319 don't I don't know that I ever thought 204 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:05,919 that we would completely lose the 205 00:08:05,919 --> 00:08:07,840 procedural element. And I part of me 206 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,680 doesn't feel like we really have. Part 207 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,759 of me feels like the procedural element 208 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:14,479 has become sometimes the client is just 209 00:08:14,479 --> 00:08:16,319 Olivia, sometimes the client is just the 210 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:18,720 White House. But what we really started 211 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,080 with was a very clear every week in the 212 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,319 door walks a case of the week. You know, 213 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:27,360 something happens. And I loved that um 214 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,840 part of the show. But what began to 215 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,519 happen was the you know every season the 216 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:35,919 larger more personal part of the show, 217 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:37,279 the story that we had been telling in 218 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:40,320 the background would overtake um our 219 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,039 show in a big way and we would think 220 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:44,159 we're not going to be able to finish 221 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,000 telling our season unless we put the 222 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,800 procedural elements down. And frankly, I 223 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,160 don't know how Olivia could be going to 224 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,680 work and doing this this other stuff 225 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:54,399 while all this stuff is going on. And so 226 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:56,560 we would sort of abandon it sort a 227 00:08:56,560 --> 00:08:58,160 partial way through the season every 228 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,800 season. And then we reached a season 229 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,200 where we thought, well, we can't do it 230 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,000 at all right now. There's just no time. 231 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,880 What was interesting about it was 232 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,680 part of me had felt like we were 233 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,279 slipping in the procedural element. When 234 00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:14,399 I wrote the pilot, I was like, we're 235 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:16,160 slipping it in so that we can tell this 236 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,000 other story. 237 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,760 But then the more we told the procedural 238 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,120 stories, the more interesting they were. 239 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,959 these elements of people's lives that 240 00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:27,279 are, you know, Olivia Pope comes into 241 00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:30,160 your to your life on your worst day and 242 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,200 fixes it as best she can became really 243 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,440 really interesting to me because because 244 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,600 it's impersonal because she doesn't know 245 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,760 you because you're opening your home to 246 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,600 somebody. It was a really fascinating 247 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,600 way of looking at something and I began 248 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,760 to miss it, you know, when we take it 249 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,800 out. However, it just allows for so much 250 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,560 more. And the stories we began to tell 251 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:53,040 are just so much bigger. You know, Papa 252 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,760 Pope showing up became about something 253 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,279 so much larger than just a small story. 254 00:09:59,279 --> 00:10:01,600 It became about, you know, her entire 255 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,839 identity. The expectations of the 256 00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:06,160 network have stopped being you need to 257 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,839 be the exact same show you are every 258 00:10:07,839 --> 00:10:09,839 single season, the way they used to be 259 00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:11,600 in the old days. That's probably the 260 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,279 biggest difference, but we never 261 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:15,360 suffered that difference. 262 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,760 Um, so that's probably the biggest 263 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,399 difference for most shows. It also 264 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:23,519 allows for a certain there's a certain 265 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:26,320 freedom. Um, just because there are so 266 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,079 many shows on the air, people are more 267 00:10:28,079 --> 00:10:30,480 willing to take leaps creatively because 268 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,600 they want something that people are 269 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,079 going to want to watch. 270 00:10:34,079 --> 00:10:38,200 Safety is no longer valued. 271 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,839 When I'm thinking about how to plan out 272 00:10:43,839 --> 00:10:45,040 my series, when I'm thinking about 273 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Grace, when I'm thinking about Scandal, 274 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,480 I don't know that I'm thinking this is 275 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,800 what I want the audience to get or this 276 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,720 is what I'm trying to convey. I think 277 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,440 I think I'm mostly thinking about here's 278 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,120 the story I want to tell. Here's what I 279 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,279 need to happen to these people. You 280 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:02,880 know, the more you think of your 281 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,720 characters as actual people who have 282 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,360 needs and less as plot devices, the 283 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,120 better off you're going to be. They're 284 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,200 not devices to deliver a message to the 285 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,600 audience. They are people who have to go 286 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,519 on a journey. And if you think of them 287 00:11:15,519 --> 00:11:17,200 that way, you're more likely to write 288 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:18,720 something that resonates and that feels 289 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,279 realistic. I believe people will follow 290 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:23,760 you if it feels like what's happening to 291 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,880 the characters feels emotionally honest. 292 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,279 I mean, you really can make almost 293 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:31,440 anything happen. 294 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,680 They'll buy it. the audience will buy 295 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,440 whatever story you want to tell if it 296 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,360 feels like it's true and um emotionally 297 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,440 sensible for the character. But if 298 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,440 you're saying to yourself, they're going 299 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,839 to go to the moon and it has nothing to 300 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:47,680 do with who these people are or 301 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,079 emotionally what they want or why 302 00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:51,360 they're doing it, there's no reasoning 303 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,720 for it, you can't sell anything. And I 304 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:55,920 find it interesting because there's a 305 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,200 lot of people who write all of their 306 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,800 plot points out, but they can't tell you 307 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,320 why their characters are doing anything 308 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,079 that they're doing. And without that 309 00:12:02,079 --> 00:12:05,040 character motivation, you have no story. 310 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,120 I think for myself, when I'm watching 311 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,399 shows, I get excited for the same reason 312 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:12,880 I get excited writing shows. I get 313 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,440 excited by the vulnerabilities of other 314 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:16,800 characters, by the secrets they're 315 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,560 keeping, by the way a story is told, by 316 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:23,440 the moments where 317 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,120 where the thing that people have been 318 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,440 hiding and holding on to, by the moments 319 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,560 when those things explode, you know, by 320 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,320 I mean, in the writer room, I call it 321 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,320 the red wedding of it all, which if you 322 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,519 watch Game of Thrones, you know what 323 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:36,720 that is. If you don't watch Game of 324 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,279 Thrones, go watch Game of Thrones. Um, 325 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:41,519 and I won't spoil it for you, but it 326 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:43,920 really those moments in which all of the 327 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,360 characters have been building up to a 328 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,000 certain moment and all of the needs of 329 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,279 people have been coming towards 330 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,040 something and it pays off in such a 331 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,040 beautiful way. I I love that stuff. I 332 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,399 think that when you're with characters 333 00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:57,600 and you're watching them on a journey 334 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,399 and you're watching them head towards 335 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:02,959 something and then unexpectedly 336 00:13:02,959 --> 00:13:05,839 things unfold, those are the things that 337 00:13:05,839 --> 00:13:07,120 you live for when you're watching a 338 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,519 show. So to me, character is the reasons 339 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:14,720 why people do things that also make them 340 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,000 feel natural and not like a cliched plot 341 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,440 point. Because people can do things that 342 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:20,639 you absolutely know that they're going 343 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:22,320 to do and you know why they're going to 344 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,240 do them, but because of who they are and 345 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,320 why they're doing them, you can't help 346 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,200 but watch anyway. 1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,840 So, in looking at um I think it's the 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,080 season 3 premiere of Scandal, and we're 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,480 probably in I think it's probably the 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:15,519 third scene. You're standing in the 5 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:17,520 airplane hanger. 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,400 You know, Olivia is with her father and 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:21,840 he's basically told her that she needs 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,320 to get on the plane and disappear for 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,279 the rest of her life, which ultimately, 10 00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:29,439 by the way, becomes the entire point of 11 00:00:29,439 --> 00:00:31,119 the season for him, that he's going to 12 00:00:31,119 --> 00:00:33,440 get her on that plane. The scene is 13 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,559 really important because it has to 14 00:00:34,559 --> 00:00:36,480 convey a lot of stuff. We've only just 15 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:38,239 found out that this man that we've been 16 00:00:38,239 --> 00:00:40,399 seeing on and off for quite a bit of 17 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:43,040 season 2 is actually her father, which 18 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,399 has kind of never occurred to most 19 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:47,600 people. So, this scene has to convey an 20 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,399 entire backstory of a relationship in 21 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:52,960 one scene. And it also has to give us a 22 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,160 whole bunch of other information about 23 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,600 him because up until now, he's just been 24 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,840 sort of a shady figure. We've known he's 25 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,840 kind of bad. We've known he's been sort 26 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,600 of moving pieces on the chessboard of 27 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,080 their political lives, but we haven't 28 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,880 known who he really is. So, then he 29 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,320 shows up. He basically says, "You're 30 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:09,520 going to get on this plane. I'm 31 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:10,880 furious." 32 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,880 And then you discover basically based on 33 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,960 what he says that he knows everything 34 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,880 about her. He knows that she's slept 35 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,280 with the president. He knows that she's 36 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,799 fixed an election. He knows everything. 37 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:27,040 And he basically lets her know that he 38 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:28,720 is such a power player in this town that 39 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,320 he knows exactly what they're going to 40 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,159 do to her to destroy her. He's a better 41 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:37,280 fixer than she'll ever be, basically. 42 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,680 And the way he speaks to her, not just 43 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,759 the way, you know, Joe Morton, who's an 44 00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:43,600 amazing actor, acts the scene, but the 45 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,840 language he uses to speak to her, 46 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,040 suggests that he is the one person in 47 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,680 this world who is far more powerful than 48 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,000 she is in terms of how he perceives her. 49 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,799 And what I really loved about putting 50 00:01:58,799 --> 00:02:00,640 this scene together was it's the first 51 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,960 scene that you watch her, you watch 52 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,119 Olivia Pope become like a little girl. 53 00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:08,160 Like she literally language-wise never 54 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,160 gets to finish a sentence really and 55 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,680 then starts to become this very sort of 56 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,239 I mean yeah there's literally not a 57 00:02:16,239 --> 00:02:17,760 sentence in here that she finishes 58 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,560 herself. She becomes this kid when she's 59 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,000 talking to her father. She starts to 60 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,800 mumble. She sort of um never really gets 61 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,160 anywhere. And it's one of the first 62 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,800 times I've truly had to write a lot of 63 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,640 stage direction in that because it was 64 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:34,560 important to me that we understood that. 65 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,080 I think I say, you know, right before 66 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,200 our eyes, Olivia gets smaller and muted 67 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:40,879 because you want to understand the power 68 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:43,920 that her father has. Olivia's inability 69 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:45,840 to finish a sentence, Olivia's inability 70 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,080 to interrupt, Olivia's inability to do 71 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,800 anything but mumble. I mean, she mumbles 72 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,959 twice as good, basically. She can't even 73 00:02:52,959 --> 00:02:56,319 raise her eyes. That silence conveys her 74 00:02:56,319 --> 00:02:58,800 lack of power. It conveys her lack of 75 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,120 authority and it conveys how much she 76 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,519 both respects and fears her father, 77 00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:07,760 which I thought was necessary. You know, 78 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,680 there are people who are 60 and still 79 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,360 can't stand up to their parents. And 80 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,760 Olivia is that one of those people. She 81 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,959 her father is everything. And to have 82 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:19,280 that be a thing that happens that she 83 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:20,800 reverts to a child in the eyes of her 84 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,400 father is easily conveyed by her 85 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,920 silence. 86 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:25,840 You raised your skirt and opened your 87 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,400 knees and gave it away to a man with too 88 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,720 much power. You're not rare. You're not 89 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,239 special. Your story is no different than 90 00:03:32,239 --> 00:03:34,080 a thousand other stories in this town. 91 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:35,519 So, you know how this goes. You could 92 00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:36,879 call this in your sleep. First, they'll 93 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:38,720 smile, be warm, sympathetic, on your 94 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,080 side, letting you know that they will 95 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,080 fight for you. They will lull you into a 96 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,120 false sense of security. And then once 97 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,239 your belly is exposed, they will gut you 98 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:50,560 and everyone you know. And they will be 99 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,080 swift about it. And by the time you 100 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,360 realize you should be fighting back, 101 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,560 well, you're already bleeding to death. 102 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,640 That is the presidency versus you. Whose 103 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:01,920 victory do you think they will fight 104 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,080 for? Whose body do you think they will 105 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:04,560 bury? 106 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:05,519 He would never. 107 00:04:05,519 --> 00:04:08,319 He would never. You and I both know that 108 00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:11,840 he is not in charge. He is never in 109 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,360 charge. Power is in charge. Power got 110 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,880 him elected. I know more than you could 111 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,160 possibly imagine. 112 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,199 And not only does he tell her that he 113 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:26,960 knows that she slept with the president, 114 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,600 he tells her that he's disappointed in 115 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240 why she slept with the president, which 116 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,960 to me is for me was a mind-blowing 117 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,240 moment even when I was writing it 118 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,680 because you kind of discover this idea 119 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,600 that not only is he disappointed in her 120 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,360 for being, you know, somebody's 121 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,840 mistress, he's saying if you're going to 122 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,520 be someone's mistress, at least aim 123 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,280 higher for what you want for being 124 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,560 someone's mistress. Don't just try to be 125 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,800 first lady, you know, secretary of 126 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,880 state. Something better than that should 127 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,040 be your goal, which is awful to say to 128 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,680 your daughter in in a lot of ways. Aim 129 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,960 higher. And then he calls her mediocre, 130 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,160 which is I think her worst fear and 131 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,080 which he has raised her to believe that 132 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,639 should be her worst fear. So then he has 133 00:05:10,639 --> 00:05:12,160 reduced her to nothing more than a 134 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,840 child. 135 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,199 And then he packs her up and he's 136 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:16,560 telling her to get on this plane and he 137 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:17,600 tells her what he's going to do with her 138 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,240 and he gives her her instructions. It's 139 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,639 it's pretty devastating because you see 140 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:25,039 her become the child she was. And to me, 141 00:05:25,039 --> 00:05:27,120 you begin to understand so much about 142 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,039 her. You understand why she has the 143 00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:30,080 affair with the president of the United 144 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,000 States in the first place, frankly. You 145 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,680 understand why power is so important to 146 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,280 her. You understand everything you need 147 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:37,600 to know about her psychology in this one 148 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,360 scene. I hope if we've done it right. 149 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,120 And it's I don't know. It's one of my 150 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,720 favorite scenes in terms of just 151 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,560 watching it play out because the two of 152 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,199 those actors, those two actors really 153 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:50,960 throw themselves into really making it 154 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,880 happen. 155 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,039 He told you that you would be first lady 156 00:05:57,039 --> 00:06:01,199 and you believed him. Did I not raise 157 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:03,120 you for better? How many times have I 158 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,280 told you you have to be what? 159 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,400 You have to be what? 160 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:14,960 Twice. 161 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,840 What? 162 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:19,840 Twice as good. 163 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:23,199 Twice as good as them to get half of 164 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:27,680 what they have. Sleeping with that. 165 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:32,639 For God's sakes, you know, to aim 166 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:34,479 higher. At the very least, you could 167 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:36,479 have aimed for chief of staff, secretary 168 00:06:36,479 --> 00:06:41,080 of state, first lady. 169 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,919 Do you have to be so mediocre? 170 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,759 Very powerfully. One of the things that 171 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:57,600 the scenes, one of the things that this 172 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,720 scene is meant to convey is 173 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,960 a shift in the show in its entirety. Um, 174 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,280 for the first two seasons, we've watched 175 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,160 Olivia Pope wearing the white hat and 176 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,400 striding along and we've watched her 177 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,400 sort of step into a little bit of 178 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,319 darkness when you find out sort of what 179 00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:17,919 role she's played in the election and 180 00:07:17,919 --> 00:07:19,360 what her relationship has been like with 181 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,880 Fitz. but she has been a woman of color 182 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,599 living in a world that feels very um 183 00:07:27,599 --> 00:07:30,319 modern in the sense that she is sort of 184 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:34,000 a a new school postracial blackness. 185 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,039 That's kind of what she's living in. And 186 00:07:37,039 --> 00:07:39,840 I always told my writer room that when 187 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,680 this scene happened, we got this, you 188 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,280 know, we we got to this point in the 189 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,840 show and I said to my writers, "This 190 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,120 scene, Papa Pope, is where blackness 191 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,599 shows up." And I by that I meant old 192 00:07:51,599 --> 00:07:54,639 school I don't trust anybody. My 193 00:07:54,639 --> 00:07:56,720 daughter shouldn't be dating a white man 194 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,759 blackness. The kind that that's that's 195 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:02,000 different from the kind of of you know 196 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,560 it's it's an old school generation. 197 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,400 You know, Papa Pope's the brother from 198 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,919 another planet. It's an old school 199 00:08:07,919 --> 00:08:13,199 generation of of thinking about race in 200 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:15,440 America that she doesn't necessarily 201 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,400 have, but he does. and it's political as 202 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,280 far as he's concerned and to him there 203 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,400 is an otherness to that to race and he 204 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,479 feels like an outsider and he's raised 205 00:08:26,479 --> 00:08:28,720 very differently and as we go forward 206 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,240 you know in the show you start to see 207 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,840 these moments where you know the 208 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,680 president offers him this amazing glass 209 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:35,519 of scotch and says like do you know blah 210 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:37,680 blah blah and he says no I'm from 211 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:39,919 Detroit like are you it's like there's a 212 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,640 ridiculousness in his mind to this very 213 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,240 rich world that these people live in 214 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,959 this privilege that he disdains and and 215 00:08:46,959 --> 00:08:49,040 he's been raising his daughter to be 216 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,120 better than this, to get somewhere. And 217 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,760 so to come back and find her in this 218 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,880 place where she is fully immersed in 219 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,160 this world, um fully involved with this 220 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,160 man, sort of having her life be almost 221 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,720 ruined is appalling to him. And so I 222 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,320 I've always said season 3 is where 223 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,480 blackness shows up and he shows up and 224 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,440 he shows up furious. And that's what 225 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,440 this scene is. And at the beginning of 226 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,440 the season, very tellingly at the end of 227 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,040 the scene, he says, "You are getting on 228 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,440 that plane come hell or high water." And 229 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,600 that is basically his goal for the 230 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,000 entire season. We watch him work at it 231 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,240 and we watch him win. 232 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,080 And I've always thought that that was a 233 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,320 really interesting example, frankly, of 234 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:33,760 knowing where you are going with your 235 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,040 season and getting there. I've gotten a 236 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,640 lot of reaction to this scene. I mean, 237 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,399 there's been a great deal of reaction 238 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:43,279 that's come from this scene. There there 239 00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:44,880 are other scenes that I hear about a 240 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,880 lot. This might be the one that people 241 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,760 comment on in its entirety the most 242 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:55,920 perhaps. It's fascinating to me that 243 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,920 when the room got the scene and we 244 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,320 talked about it, there was a a very 245 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,000 mixed reaction. I mean, my room is a 246 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,560 very um 247 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:06,240 culturally diverse room. There's a bunch 248 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,519 of different kinds of people in that 249 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:09,839 room from all ages, all races, all 250 00:10:09,839 --> 00:10:14,160 religions, all cultures. truly. And what 251 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,320 I found really interesting is anybody 252 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,640 who was um who'd grown up in a world in 253 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,320 which they found themselves to be a 254 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,279 minority got the scene immediately. They 255 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:27,760 absolutely understood it. And anybody 256 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,480 who didn't had a lot of questions and I 257 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,240 thought that was interesting. I mean 258 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,560 truly interesting. Not in a good or bad 259 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,240 way. I found it fascinating. And that's 260 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,519 and there were a lot of arguments about 261 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:40,399 the scene. And as I have said about any 262 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:42,480 scene, any story we tell, I could always 263 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,240 tell you that in the scandal writer 264 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:45,440 room, if there are a lot of arguments 265 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,200 about a scene, I know that scene's going 266 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,240 to be interesting and it's going to 1 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:13,759 You know, it's interesting. I think that 2 00:00:13,759 --> 00:00:17,440 USC was really instrumental for me in 3 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,039 getting me contacts and getting me 4 00:00:19,039 --> 00:00:21,039 acclimated. I came to Los Angeles not 5 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:24,160 knowing a single person and getting an 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,240 internship, getting to know people, 7 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,880 getting the introductions to things. USC 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,679 was very helpful for that. 9 00:00:31,679 --> 00:00:33,680 Here's what I think because I think film 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,520 school is invaluable in that it's a it's 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,040 an amazing little lab, but and I did 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,239 learn I did come in knowing a lot about 13 00:00:42,239 --> 00:00:43,840 production because of it and that was 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,399 really helpful as well. 15 00:00:46,399 --> 00:00:48,960 But I think in terms of like just 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,480 financially, if you are 17 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:54,960 hurting for money, if you have to take 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,960 out a lot of student loans, if there's 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,800 not a scholarship waiting for you and 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,120 you are worried about that, and frankly, 21 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,199 it's different now. Student loans back 22 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:05,199 when I went to school cuz I'm an old 23 00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:07,119 lady and when you might be going to 24 00:01:07,119 --> 00:01:11,520 school now are just different. So to me, 25 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,360 if you have to make the choice between 26 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,439 going to film school and coming out to 27 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:17,920 LA and getting a job as a PA on a set or 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,640 getting a job as a PA, you know, in some 29 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,880 writer's office or something like that, 30 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,759 get the job because I think that there 31 00:01:25,759 --> 00:01:28,159 is a lot to be done with you writing at 32 00:01:28,159 --> 00:01:29,520 night and getting a job during the day 33 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:30,960 and working your butt off and making 34 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:32,799 contacts that way. I think it's very, 35 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:34,560 very, very expensive to go to school 36 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,880 right now. And while I think that 37 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,840 everybody should get a college 38 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,439 education, I'm not necessarily sure you 39 00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:43,079 need a film school education. 40 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,240 A thing that I think can be really 41 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,240 helpful for people when they get a job, 42 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,240 and people don't seem to know this right 43 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,759 now, and it's feels very obvious, if you 44 00:01:55,759 --> 00:01:58,719 get a job in the industry making someone 45 00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:00,560 coffee, making someone copies, running 46 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,640 someone's errands, you better make the 47 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,240 best coffee they've ever had. and it 48 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,920 better be with a smile. The ones who 49 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,879 seem flatout pissed that they're there 50 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:11,039 or frustrated or lazy or entitled, you 51 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:12,879 want them to go away because you think, 52 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:15,120 man, they're just sucking the air from 53 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,360 the room. You better run those errands 54 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:18,959 as cheerfully as you possibly can with 55 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:21,599 the most energy. And the reason is is 56 00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:24,480 because the entitled sort of I can't 57 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,760 believe I'm doing this thing is 58 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,200 very gets very old very fast. Now, I say 59 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,519 this and I can say this because when I 60 00:02:33,519 --> 00:02:36,560 got my first job as an assistant, I was 61 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,920 the most spoiled, miserable, like 62 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:42,400 pathetic assistant in the world. Like, I 63 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,480 had the most sour look on my face all 64 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,400 the time. I used to drive around the 65 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,560 corner from the studio and cry all lunch 66 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,720 hour because I had to like do all these 67 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,879 terrible things like feed the fish. And 68 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:54,319 I was like pathetic. I mean, it was 69 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:55,920 embarrassing. I embarrassed myself, 70 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,080 frankly, all the time. And I cannot 71 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,640 believe I didn't get fired really fast. 72 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,640 I was very lucky that they were nicer to 73 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:04,800 me than than I would have been. But I do 74 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,280 think that there's something about 75 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,760 this job that it's a hard job. You want 76 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,040 to get noticed and you want people to 77 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,480 notice you because you have a great 78 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:15,920 attitude. People who have a great 79 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,000 attitude are the ones that I always end 80 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,680 up saying like, "What's your script 81 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,120 about?" You know, like or what are you 82 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,959 doing? What are you interested in? Those 83 00:03:22,959 --> 00:03:24,239 are the people who get noticed and get 84 00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:26,319 their scripts read and get advice and 85 00:03:26,319 --> 00:03:29,360 get get a chance because you you think 86 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,400 like, man, they're working hard. 87 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,879 I know people use the term networking a 88 00:03:38,879 --> 00:03:40,319 lot and they talk about how important it 89 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:43,120 is for them to network. What I found, 90 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,840 and this is this is my advice coming 91 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,480 from watching all of the the younger 92 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,480 people in my office and how they're sort 93 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,080 of getting things done. They've made an 94 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,640 incredible network of their peers. And 95 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,959 what's really great about that is, you 96 00:03:58,959 --> 00:04:00,480 know, you come to this town, you meet a 97 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,239 bunch of other people your own age, 98 00:04:02,239 --> 00:04:04,560 everybody starts to get jobs. Those 99 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,400 people get other people jobs, they get 100 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,400 other people jobs, and as th as they 101 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,599 rise, those are your peers. So suddenly 102 00:04:11,599 --> 00:04:14,239 your friend who you were an intern with, 103 00:04:14,239 --> 00:04:16,239 you know, 10 years later is president of 104 00:04:16,239 --> 00:04:18,959 a network or something. That happens. I 105 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,040 mean, and that's how it goes. So you 106 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,360 really want to make not you don't want 107 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:24,800 to spend your time trying to suck up to 108 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,880 people who are me. You want to spend 109 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,720 your time trying to make friends with 110 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,160 the people who are your peers because 111 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,000 those people as they rise will take you 112 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,560 with them. That's really what you want 113 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,320 to do. That's the most important thing. 114 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:37,840 And yes, while you do want to get to 115 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:40,000 know some people who are on the rise in 116 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,720 other places um or who are already in 117 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,560 higher positions, it's not really about 118 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,560 that because the junior agent who's 119 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,160 struggling to make it is more likely to 120 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,639 represent you than the person who runs 121 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:53,199 CIA. Much more likely. And they're the 122 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:54,560 ones who are going to bust their butts 123 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,000 to get you something because they want 124 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,479 to succeed as well. That's the important 125 00:04:58,479 --> 00:05:02,199 person to get to know. 126 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Here's 127 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,479 the deal. If you have fingers and can 128 00:05:08,479 --> 00:05:10,560 get on the internet, you can find a ton 129 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,240 of those resources because they're out 130 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,240 there. I know that Sundance tries to do 131 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,919 it. I know that Women in Film tries to 132 00:05:15,919 --> 00:05:18,639 do it. You should really be looking. Um, 133 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,560 I'm sure the Black Filmmakers Foundation 134 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,960 could be of some help. There are a lot 135 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,919 of places that are really trying to open 136 00:05:25,919 --> 00:05:28,400 those doors and make this possible. I 137 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,240 think there's huge value in applying for 138 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,080 the writers pro programs that networks 139 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,360 have. Um I think three or four of the 140 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,360 writers I have on Scandal came from the 141 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,400 writer programs at ABC. And I think 142 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,800 there's huge value to that because 143 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,960 they're people that may maybe I wouldn't 144 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,360 have known otherwise. And I also think 145 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,880 there's huge value to that simply 146 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,520 because it is a way of getting into this 147 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,600 town, getting a look around, finding out 148 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,759 if it's for you, and getting paid while 149 00:05:55,759 --> 00:05:57,759 you figure out how you're going to make 150 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,080 it and what you're going to do and 151 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,560 meeting a lot of people. And they get 152 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,120 access to network executives in a way 153 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,280 that most people never do, even when 154 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,600 they've been staffed on shows. So to me, 155 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,479 I think it's very valuable. 156 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,039 I think there are a lot of opportunities 157 00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:21,440 out there for people and I think that a 158 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,400 cheerful smile and a polite inquiry go a 159 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,319 long way and and you know reminding 160 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:28,400 someone just saying like I understand 161 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,600 there's nothing right now but if there's 162 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,120 something available down the line can 163 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,800 you let me know. People love that. It 164 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,600 just it's not about you you know sort of 165 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,120 being in at someone's face all the time 166 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,319 or you know people always say be 167 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:40,000 persistent. I think that's always a 168 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,280 difficult thing to say to somebody 169 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:42,800 because be persistent can turn into 170 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,440 being a pain in the butt. You want to be 171 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,600 polite and there and remind them of your 172 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,080 talent without being, you know, too 173 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,160 much. And I think people really like 174 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,319 that. One of my pieces of advice is 175 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:57,600 this. Don't show up at fan events and 176 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,440 then try to get somebody to take your 177 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,479 script or try to get them to like have a 178 00:07:02,479 --> 00:07:06,639 private meeting with you. It's both 179 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:09,039 um sort of inappropriate and I tell you 180 00:07:09,039 --> 00:07:10,560 this with love because it's 181 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,000 inappropriate. We can't take your 182 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,840 scripts at those events. Literally 183 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,199 legally we can't take your scripts at 184 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:16,800 those events. So you'll always be 185 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,039 disappointed and we'll always feel bad. 186 00:07:19,039 --> 00:07:21,440 Um and B, it's a little bit scary 187 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,440 because sometimes the things that we get 188 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,240 are not fan things or scripts. So we 189 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,039 can't we really can't take them. So I 190 00:07:29,039 --> 00:07:31,280 think trying to not approach it from 191 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,120 those events is great. Like when you 192 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,280 come to the writer events, I think those 193 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:36,560 are the perfect times to ask more 194 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,720 questions about how to do it, but those 195 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,319 are not the time to try to hand out your 196 00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:42,960 scripts like in a crowd of 500 people. 197 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,520 You know, try to stand out by by sort of 198 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,840 walking the very professional line. I 199 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,599 think that's my my probably my best 200 00:07:49,599 --> 00:07:50,960 piece of advice because I think it can 201 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,520 really help you. 202 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,240 I don't necessarily know that I believe 203 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,440 in that concept of mentors in the way 204 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,520 that most people do, especially because 205 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,680 I 206 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,120 I always hear people go say, I'm going 207 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,560 to go out and I'm going to find myself a 208 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,479 mentor or I'm going to ask this person 209 00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:15,520 to be my mentor. Mentors are people who 210 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400 gradually become that person over time. 211 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,160 I don't think you can find one and I 212 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,160 don't think that that a mentor helps you 213 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,479 achieve your goal. I think that you sort 214 00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:25,919 of look back at a certain point and go, 215 00:08:25,919 --> 00:08:28,400 "Oh, that lesson that that p person 216 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,199 taught me got me somewhere." I don't 217 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:34,000 think that they're there's no sort of 218 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,519 prescribed mentor that you need to go 219 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:37,519 and find and ask. People always ask me 220 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:39,279 like, "Will you be my mentor?" And 221 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:40,719 that's a terrible question. If you have 222 00:08:40,719 --> 00:08:42,560 to ask, that person can't possibly be 223 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:46,000 your mentor. It's not it it doesn't work 224 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,800 that way. I've met a lot of really 225 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,560 interesting um people over time who each 226 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:54,160 one of them has taught me something 227 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,680 fascinating, but I don't know that I 228 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,080 could name a specific person who's done 229 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,160 a a specific thing for me. I think 230 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:03,920 there's been so many people who have 231 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,080 just by example or by um just a word or 232 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,160 two that they've said or by just every 233 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:11,760 once in a while somebody giving me 234 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:17,000 something in a way has really helped 235 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,440 I think what's interesting is that 236 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,839 basically the best use of your time if 237 00:09:25,839 --> 00:09:28,720 you want to be a writer in television is 238 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,360 write original work. I mean I know 239 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,200 people like spec scripts but that 240 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,959 changes. I mean there's a there's a 241 00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:36,399 pendulum that swings. Sometimes they 242 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,000 like it, sometimes they don't. So write 243 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,160 yourself an original work so people know 244 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,760 you have a voice. Um, and then go get a 245 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,519 job as a PA or a writer's assistant and 246 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:48,880 stand as close as you can to a 247 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,360 showrunner and hopefully they will 248 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,240 notice you and read and learn as much as 249 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,519 you can and get them to read your 250 00:09:55,519 --> 00:09:57,519 scripts. Like honestly, the closer you 251 00:09:57,519 --> 00:10:00,000 can get to a writer's room, the faster 252 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,760 you will learn and know more. I don't 253 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,519 necessarily think that you have to be a 254 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:08,160 writer who is coming up with a 255 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:09,920 television show. I think what's 256 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,519 interesting right now is there are so 257 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:14,399 many shows on the air that it feels like 258 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:15,680 everybody's supposed to be out there 259 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,839 creating a show and that's not 260 00:10:17,839 --> 00:10:19,360 necessarily true. There's something to 261 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,480 be said for being on a staff of a show 262 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,560 um that's perfectly wonderful um for 263 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,480 writing on someone else's show that's 264 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,480 perfectly wonderful. Not everybody needs 265 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,240 to have their own show. Frankly, if 266 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,600 everyone had their own show, no one 267 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,720 would have a show because no one would 268 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,160 be writing on a show. Um, 269 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,920 I also think that what's interesting 270 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,760 about the idea that everybody's always 271 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,279 trying to have their own show and 272 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,560 everybody has to have their own idea is 273 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,880 you lose sort of the magic of getting to 274 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,160 really learn and hone your craft and 275 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,160 figure out what you want to do and how 276 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,120 you want to do it. I I've watched some 277 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,360 writers really start out fairly rough 278 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,600 and grow into really amazing writers who 279 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,680 now have their own shows, but it took 280 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,079 them a while. and watching them grow and 281 00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:08,480 learn and watch other people's mistakes 282 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,640 and other people's challenges and other 283 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,519 people's triumphs frankly was really 284 00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:18,200 great for them and they appreciate it. 285 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Here's what's awesome about being a 286 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,760 writer 287 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,800 in this town. It's the only job you can 288 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,000 do that nobody has to hire you for. 289 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,079 Meaning it's the only job you can show 290 00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:36,560 that you can do without getting a job 291 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:38,480 for. So to be a director, somebody has 292 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:39,600 to help you. They have to give you some 293 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,800 money. They have to give you a camera. 294 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:41,760 They have to give you something. You 295 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,440 have to get actors to work with you. 296 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,680 Something. If you're an actor, somebody 297 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:47,120 has to want to hire you and give you a 298 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,480 job. Or else you're just acting in your 299 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,640 living room by yourself. But if you're a 300 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,600 writer, you can sit down in your closet 301 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,240 if you want to and type up whatever you 302 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,760 want to type up. You can write it 303 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,240 longhand if you have to. And the reality 304 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,880 of this town is is there are so few 305 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,320 writers for so many jobs that if you can 306 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,360 write, somebody will hire you. People 307 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,600 are dying for good writers right now. 308 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,360 Like there is this is a moment at this 309 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,800 moment in time where people are saying 310 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,480 to themselves, there are not enough 311 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,880 writers. It it's constant. It's all I 312 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,279 ever hear. And if you can write and 313 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:24,880 people can find your script, they'll be 314 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,800 thrilled to have it. I worked at um 315 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,079 Portals, a place that helped the 316 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:31,600 mentally ill homeless learn job skills 317 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,000 and find places to live. And every day I 318 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000 worked there all day and it was a tough 319 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,560 job and it was across from a place of 320 00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:40,639 questionable repute where questionable 321 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:41,519 things happened and I was a little 322 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:43,200 scared to go to work every day and I 323 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,320 would come home at the end of a very 324 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,000 long day and I would pull out my laptop 325 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,160 and I would work on my script. That 326 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,440 script is the script that got me an 327 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,959 agent, that got me a job, that got 328 00:12:50,959 --> 00:12:53,519 things happening for me. So you go there 329 00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:55,360 and you you go to work, you come home, 330 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,720 you work on your script, and at the end 331 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,200 of the day, you have something that you 332 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,279 can show for it, that you can hand to 333 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,200 somebody that says, "Look, I can write." 334 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,680 Or, "Look, this is a good idea." 335 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,480 That's the beauty of 1 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:09,280 Rules to succeed in a writer's room. If 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,719 you're new in a writer's room and you 3 00:00:10,719 --> 00:00:11,679 don't know what to do and you don't know 4 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:14,160 what to say, one, be the person who 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,519 holds the marker and stands at the 6 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:18,080 board. That is always a great way to go 7 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:20,240 because it makes you seem energetic and 8 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:22,480 like you're doing something. Two, try to 9 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,600 talk when you're, you know, in that 10 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,039 room. Try to say at least one thing a 11 00:00:25,039 --> 00:00:27,279 day. Three, make sure you've read the 12 00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:28,960 writer room notes the night before and 13 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:30,960 be the person who when somebody asks, 14 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,120 "What did we say?" Remind everybody what 15 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,920 you said. You know, try to be useful. 16 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,079 Try to be helpful. Be kind and be nice. 17 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:41,840 And be the first one there and the last 18 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,040 one to leave always. That's what I think 19 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,440 will help you. 20 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:54,719 When I'm looking to hire somebody, I 21 00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,680 like to find people who not only have a 22 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,000 real individual voice in their writing. 23 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,320 So, I don't want to read a spec script, 24 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,199 which is just a script written um for 25 00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:06,640 somebody else's show, meaning you can 26 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,240 write in somebody else's voice. I want 27 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,560 to read an original piece of writing. 28 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,320 Sometimes it's an article, sometimes 29 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,640 it's a play, sometimes it's a novel, 30 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,439 sometimes it's a script, but I want it I 31 00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:19,040 want it to be original. It has to be 32 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,600 original. Um, not only do I want to read 33 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,960 that and find out that you have an 34 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:25,200 original voice, but I want people who 35 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,520 aren't afraid of me. Um, which I found 36 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,360 is interesting. People come in afraid to 37 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,520 sort of express their opinion. They 38 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,439 think they're not supposed to have one. 39 00:01:35,439 --> 00:01:37,439 Um, but not only are you supposed to be 40 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:38,720 afraid not afraid to express your 41 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,159 opinion, you have to be willing to 42 00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:41,840 argue. You have to be willing to fight 43 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,840 for your opinion. Because to me, a 44 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,439 writer's room where everybody is in 45 00:01:45,439 --> 00:01:47,600 agreement all the time is not a writer's 46 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,520 room. That's just me listening to the 47 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,159 sound of my own voice and that is boring 48 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:54,079 and I can't possibly be right all the 49 00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:56,479 time. That's 50 00:01:56,479 --> 00:01:58,719 so I always want a room in which 51 00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:00,159 everybody has different opinions. 52 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:01,360 Everyone's from sort of a different 53 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,439 background. Everybody has different 54 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:05,759 experiences, different ages, different 55 00:02:05,759 --> 00:02:08,800 everything so that people can bring that 56 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,440 to the table and then argue their points 57 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,160 of view and their ideas. That always 58 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,200 makes for much better television. 59 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,239 I think a writer's room can be a very um 60 00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:28,560 wonderful place to be, but I also think 61 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,280 that there are so many mistakes that 62 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,720 writers can make in writer rooms that 63 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,640 I've seen over the years that I think 64 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:36,800 can really be detrime detrimental to 65 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,599 their career, you know, and I don't know 66 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:41,360 that everybody really knows it or 67 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,840 understands it. 68 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,519 And you have a um responsibility every 69 00:02:47,519 --> 00:02:50,800 evening to go home and have come in 70 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,160 having read the writer room notes from 71 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,519 the day before to have some ideas about 72 00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:57,120 what you want to talk about the next 73 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,360 day. Even if it's not your episode 74 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,280 that's being placed on the board to be 75 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,400 discussed. If it is your episode, you 76 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:05,760 cannot show up in the writer room the 77 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,519 next day with no new ideas or work. you 78 00:03:09,519 --> 00:03:11,760 really have to go home and like come up 79 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,040 with a bunch of new pitches, come up 80 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,319 with a bunch of new ideas, having 81 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:16,560 forwarded your story, have things to put 82 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,800 on the board to fill it up that can be 83 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,040 then discussed or changed or challenged, 84 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,519 but you have to have done some work. So, 85 00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:25,040 a lot of people don't seem to understand 86 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,720 that walking into that room, you don't 87 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,239 just walk into the room, throw yourself 88 00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:30,000 throw yourself down in a chair and go, 89 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,920 "What are we doing?" You're supposed to 90 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,319 come in with some thoughts and ideas and 91 00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:36,480 do some work ahead of time. That's 92 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,040 important. Another danger in a writer's 93 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,760 room can be someone who doesn't talk. 94 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,519 You can come in to the writer's room, 95 00:03:43,519 --> 00:03:45,920 you can be a new writer, you're nervous, 96 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,080 you want to do well, it's scary. 97 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,760 Everybody else has already been there or 98 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,680 they're all more experienced than you. 99 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,200 You walk into the writer's room, you sit 100 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,159 down, and you don't say a word. Being a 101 00:03:56,159 --> 00:03:57,840 writer who doesn't talk in a writer's 102 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,599 room is very dangerous, mainly because 103 00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:03,439 after a while, people forget you're 104 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,080 there or worse, they start to think 105 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,560 you're stupid. or worse, they start to 106 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,040 think you don't have anything to say. 107 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,159 And once that happens, it's kind of over 108 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:16,799 for you. You know, they you you've given 109 00:04:16,799 --> 00:04:18,320 you're given a grace period where people 110 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,440 sort of think, well, they're new and 111 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,600 they're nervous. And I always say, you 112 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:22,960 know, well, what do you think? What do 113 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,479 you think? What do you think? To try to 114 00:04:24,479 --> 00:04:26,800 get people to talk. But after a while, 115 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,400 if you don't talk, I start hearing from 116 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,600 the other writers. They don't say 117 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,360 anything. They're they're dead. They're 118 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:32,880 dead in the water. They're they're, you 119 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,440 know, and it's it's a bummer for them 120 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,280 because I'm sure you have great ideas. 121 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:38,720 We hired you because we loved your 122 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,560 writing. Whatever you said in the 123 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:41,840 interview made us think you were 124 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,880 interesting. Obviously, you deserve to 125 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,800 be there. You know, if you've made it 126 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,880 into that room, if you've been hired, 127 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,360 you deserve to be there. Act like it. 128 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,520 That's really important. I think another 129 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,680 way that you can make a mistake in a 130 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,240 writer room is to talk too much. 131 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,160 You know, we get the writers who come in 132 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,280 and they won't shut up at all. And 133 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,040 nobody else gets a chance to talk. 134 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,400 Nobody else gets a chance to have an 135 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,560 idea. Nobody else gets a chance to have 136 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,400 a thought because they're so busy 137 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,240 telling everybody all of their amazing 138 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,479 thoughts and ideas. That's a difficult 139 00:05:14,479 --> 00:05:16,800 one as well. I don't think that that 140 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,400 happens very often, but I've seen it 141 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,360 happen once or twice, and that's also 142 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,680 just deadly. 143 00:05:28,479 --> 00:05:30,320 If you are coming into the writer room 144 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,039 every day, I'm expecting to hear 145 00:05:33,039 --> 00:05:36,160 something. So, I like to hear pitches 146 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,960 that are they don't have to be complete. 147 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,160 You don't have to walk into the writer 148 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,080 room and say, "I have this complete idea 149 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,800 that goes from A to B to C to D." But, 150 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,120 you do need to have ideas. And it's 151 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,560 always important to me to have somebody 152 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:49,680 come into the room and they're going to 153 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,600 talk about an episode or something that 154 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,759 they want to do to be able to relate it 155 00:05:53,759 --> 00:05:56,720 to character. I cannot 156 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,440 abide a pitch that comes into my room 157 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,360 that is simply about plot. Um, a man 158 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,039 wants to blow up a building and so he 159 00:06:07,039 --> 00:06:08,880 does this and so Olivia does this and so 160 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,800 somebody else does this. What does that 161 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,639 have to do with anything? Like you have 162 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:14,800 to tell me that a man's wife was 163 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,600 kidnapped and he's devastated and that 164 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,600 devastation has led him to, you know, 165 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,360 this emotional breakdown. Like where is 166 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,759 the where are the emotional stakes? What 167 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:25,360 is emotional for him? What's going to be 168 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,479 emotional for me? What's going to be 169 00:06:26,479 --> 00:06:28,479 emotional for the audience? I need it to 170 00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:30,319 come from character. Like you can't tell 171 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:31,280 me that he's going to blow up the 172 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:32,880 capital because he it's going to be 173 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,639 cool. He's going to blow up the capital 174 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:36,960 because his heart is broken or because 175 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,919 he's feeling lost or whatever it is. 176 00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:41,440 Everything has to come from character. 177 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,479 So, if you pitch me something that 178 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:44,080 doesn't come from character, I literally 179 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,520 say, "I can't hear you." And then I ask 180 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:48,720 somebody else for a pitch. It sounds 181 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,639 mean, but at this point, everybody knows 182 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:52,160 me well enough to go know what I can't 183 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,400 hear you means because I can't. And some 184 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,319 people love those kind of pitches. I've 185 00:06:56,319 --> 00:06:57,759 seen it happen in other room. You know, 186 00:06:57,759 --> 00:06:58,960 other people talk about it from their 187 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,240 rooms. I literally can't understand a 188 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:03,599 pitch that doesn't have character 189 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:05,840 involved in it because everything I 190 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:08,720 write is about character. So, to me, you 191 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,560 really have to pitch from character. 192 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,759 I learned one thing from um one of the 193 00:07:19,759 --> 00:07:21,520 writers I have who's been with us I want 194 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,000 to say for god for like 10 years 195 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,720 probably the whole time. That person 196 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,840 came in and they sat down and started 197 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,319 reading the very first draft of a script 198 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:34,240 that came out, the production draft of a 199 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,759 script that came out, the last draft of 200 00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:36,800 the script that came out, and then 201 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,000 watching the cut of every episode 202 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,479 because they wanted to figure out what 203 00:07:42,479 --> 00:07:45,280 the difference was, like why things got 204 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,160 changed, what changed, what got honed 205 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,919 and cut, and then what ended up in a 206 00:07:49,919 --> 00:07:52,479 final cut and why. And that person, I 207 00:07:52,479 --> 00:07:54,080 have to say, learn how to write the show 208 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,759 better than anybody else, faster than 209 00:07:55,759 --> 00:07:57,680 anybody else. That's a really smart way 210 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,680 to go when you come into a show that is 211 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,680 already running. If you really want to 212 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,919 understand how a show is written, you 213 00:08:03,919 --> 00:08:05,039 look at what comes out of the writer 214 00:08:05,039 --> 00:08:06,800 room, the very first draft, what the 215 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,879 production draft is, what the final 216 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:10,479 draft is, and then what the show looked 217 00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:12,160 like when it went on the air. That will 218 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,800 tell you so much about what the person 219 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,879 who's running the show thinks the show 220 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:18,879 should be, because that's the show you 221 00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:20,479 want to write. That's the only show that 222 00:08:20,479 --> 00:08:22,800 matters, frankly. So, that was a really 223 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,319 smart way to go and I highly recommend 224 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:27,720 that for anybody. 225 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,000 There are are writers who only talk or 226 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,080 only sort of seem to come on. Their on 227 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,599 switch only happens when the showrunner 228 00:08:37,599 --> 00:08:40,159 comes into the room. And then, you know, 229 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:41,760 that's hard for me because I don't ever 230 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,519 see it, but I hear about it from all the 231 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:46,480 other writers. That's a problem as well. 232 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,399 A writer's room shouldn't and needn't be 233 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:50,080 a competitive situation. You know, this 234 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,760 is not survivor. We're not fighting for 235 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,360 our lives in there. Everybody is sort of 236 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,480 there to do well. And I think that if 237 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,000 you're you're being supportive and 238 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,279 you're doing well and you're talking in 239 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:03,040 the room and you're showing yourself to 240 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,600 be productive and you're working as hard 241 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,600 as you can, you're going to do okay. The 242 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,279 other thing that a writer really needs, 243 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:12,560 once again, is to sit in a room and hear 244 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:14,720 other people's ideas and not just shoot 245 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,200 them down, but build on them. Or if you 246 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,959 don't like what someone said, be able to 247 00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:21,040 find another solution to their problem. 248 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,480 The people who just shoot down other 249 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,839 people's ideas are the people who get 250 00:09:23,839 --> 00:09:26,000 fired the fastest in almost anybody's 251 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,560 writer's room. From what I hear, that is 252 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:30,560 that is a big one. If you are just the 253 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,240 naysayer in the room, nobody wants you 254 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,440 there because you feel unproductive. 255 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,440 Writer's 256 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,320 rooms have very different quirks. Uh, 257 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,440 the Grey's Anatomy writer room is a 258 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,560 little bit like a very large 259 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:51,680 kindergarten. And in that I mean or 260 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,000 maybe like a like a day room in a 261 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,920 nursing home. In that I mean there are 262 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,920 lots of arts and crafts going on. There 263 00:09:57,920 --> 00:09:59,040 are people who knit. There are people 264 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,399 who are painting by numbers. There are 265 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:02,399 people who are doing like all kinds of 266 00:10:02,399 --> 00:10:04,480 elaborate art projects. There's a 267 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:05,760 treadmill in there and people are 268 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,360 running on it. Like that room is always 269 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,839 active. There's always stuff happening. 270 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:15,040 It's kind of hilarious. The scandal room 271 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,120 is very different. It's a smaller room. 272 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,959 There are less people. Everybody's sort 273 00:10:18,959 --> 00:10:20,240 of sitting around with their feet up on 274 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,079 furniture and there's a lot of eating 275 00:10:22,079 --> 00:10:24,000 that happens in that room and they never 276 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,480 leave. But they're a very tight-knit 277 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,680 group of people. The etiquette really is 278 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:31,600 like if everybody has their seat in a 279 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,200 writer's room, which some writer rooms 280 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,560 everybody goes and they sit in the same 281 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,480 place every single day, don't be the 282 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,600 person who decides you're going to sit 283 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,399 someplace else. It's deadly. It's just 284 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:41,920 deadly. For some reason, people get 285 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,399 really quirky about things like that. 286 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:47,040 You know, in our writer rooms, if 287 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,880 everybody eats lunch together, which 288 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:50,959 like a scandal, everybody eats lunch 289 00:10:50,959 --> 00:10:53,040 together. You can't be the person who 290 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,480 doesn't want to eat lunch with everybody 291 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,079 else. that always, you know, feels weird 292 00:10:58,079 --> 00:10:59,519 to everybody. That person doesn't even 293 00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:01,279 eat lunch with us. Like, if that's the 294 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:03,040 vibe, you sort of have to fall into the 295 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,079 culture. Um, 296 00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:07,360 I don't know. It just feels like, you 297 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,399 know, on Grace, we used to have 298 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:09,839 something called Scotch Tuesdays where 299 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:13,200 we'd all taste scotch on Tuesdays. Um, 300 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,480 for some reason, we thought it was 301 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:15,920 interesting, mainly because people kept 302 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,200 giving me bottles of scotch and I didn't 303 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,600 know what to do with them. Uh, but you 304 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,800 know, there are little things that 305 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,640 happen that just are like how the 306 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,560 culture is. 307 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,560 We did bake offs. We were just very 308 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,320 nerdy at Graves in a way that was very 309 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 interesting, in a way that is fun, and 310 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,320 nerdy in a very different way over at 311 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,079 Scandal. And you you have your 312 00:11:34,079 --> 00:11:37,360 personalities and it works. 1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,639 When you're writing a movie, what's 2 00:00:14,639 --> 00:00:18,640 wonderful is that for 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,760 364 days, you can um think about writing 4 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,039 your movie and then spend a couple of 5 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:29,119 months writing your movie. With 6 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:31,519 television, every eight days you need to 7 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:33,680 produce a script. And if you're doing 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,800 that for 22 episodes, every eight days 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,360 for 22 sets of eight days or whatever, 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,200 you have to produce a script. That is 11 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,920 not a joke. And it must happen. You're 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,440 in eight days in prep, eight days in 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:46,800 shooting, eight days in post-production. 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,960 And it has to continuously happen or 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,120 else the trains stop as we like to call 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,840 it. And if the trains stop, production 17 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,760 stops and money keeps getting spent 18 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,320 while everybody waits for you, which you 19 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,680 can do. So it is a continuous um race to 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,360 keep ahead of production, to have 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,080 scripts ready for people to shoot. And 22 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,560 you have to have the ability to keep 23 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,159 producing scripts and making something 24 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:13,920 happen which is very different from 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,360 movies where you write one and then 26 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,720 people think about it for months and 27 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:17,920 then they give you notes and you think 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,240 about it for months and then I don't 29 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,320 know there's months of pre-production 30 00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:24,400 and then months of prep, you know, like 31 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:25,840 preparation and discussion and 32 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,799 rehearsals and then you shoot a movie. 33 00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:30,880 Movies can take years. One script could 34 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,360 take years to get made. Whereas 35 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,320 television, it's immediate, 36 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,240 which is both terrifying and exciting. 37 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,759 There's something really wonderful about 38 00:01:39,759 --> 00:01:42,720 the idea that I could have an idea like 39 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,759 Olivia Pope gets kidnapped on a Monday 40 00:01:45,759 --> 00:01:48,880 and by the next Monday I've sitting a 41 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,079 table read where Olivia Pope gets 42 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:51,600 kidnapped and by the next Monday Olivia 43 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,439 Pope's being kidnapped. You know, it 44 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:57,119 that's thrilling, but it is very 45 00:01:57,119 --> 00:02:00,119 immediate. 46 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,799 I would highly recommend people get a 47 00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:08,800 non-writing producing partner. I think 48 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,479 it's invaluable if you can find the 49 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:13,840 right person. I don't know how um a lot 50 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,599 of people do their jobs without it. 51 00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:17,280 Betsy and I talk about this all the 52 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,120 time. She's my non-writing producing 53 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,879 partner and she and I go, "Why don't 54 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:23,040 other people do this more?" And it's 55 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,319 starting to become more and more 56 00:02:24,319 --> 00:02:26,959 frequent, but I highly recommend it. 57 00:02:26,959 --> 00:02:28,959 Having a non-writing producing partner 58 00:02:28,959 --> 00:02:31,520 in Hollywood is very rare, I think, for 59 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,120 television shows. And for me, it has 60 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,720 been invaluable simply because my 61 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,599 capacity for shows, well, not even my 62 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:42,879 capacity. We have so many shows. Um, and 63 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:44,640 we want to make more shows that I'm not 64 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,640 creating, but we also want to make shows 65 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:48,400 that I am creating. And on the ones I'm 66 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,840 not creating, it's sort of like being 67 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,360 the grandmother. You get to hold the 68 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:52,560 baby and love the baby, but then you 69 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,080 have get to give the baby back and go 70 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,640 home. But I still have my own shows that 71 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,480 I'm still overseeing on a day-to-day 72 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,760 basis. That's hard. That's a lot of I 73 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,120 think we're going to have six shows on 74 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,040 the air at a certain point this year. 75 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,280 That's a lot of shows. And in order to 76 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,159 do that, you really need to I couldn't 77 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:12,319 imagine doing all that by myself. to 78 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:14,080 have a non-writing producing partner who 79 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,080 is doing a lot of the heavy lifting on 80 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,000 the side of of dealing with the studio 81 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,280 and the network of dealing with the 82 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,040 production side makes things a lot 83 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,280 easier for me so that I can really help 84 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,200 direct story and be on the storytelling 85 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,200 side. 86 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,159 The best thing anybody can do who works 87 00:03:34,159 --> 00:03:37,120 in television if you get a show is sit 88 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,640 down with your line producer and be 89 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,239 absolutely honest with them about what 90 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:43,200 you know and what you don't know and 91 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,760 what you need from them. Say to them, "I 92 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,040 need to know when something's too 93 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,599 expensive. I need to know when I'm doing 94 00:03:49,599 --> 00:03:51,200 something crazy. I need you to give me 95 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,519 the fences to play within so that I can 96 00:03:53,519 --> 00:03:55,360 know what I'm doing." A lot of people 97 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:56,640 don't do that. and the poor line 98 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,000 producer is trapped with um this sense 99 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,840 of I've got a crazy writer on my hands 100 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,200 who doesn't know what they're doing or 101 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,560 who does know what they're doing and 102 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:05,760 doesn't care how much money they're 103 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,280 spending because you they're never quite 104 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,480 sure. I have been very fortunate to work 105 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,040 with some really amazing line producers 106 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,560 who are creative, who are bold, who have 107 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,280 walked into my office and said you are 108 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:25,120 going to kill me but or I am going to 109 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,479 kill you if you don't. And that has been 110 00:04:28,479 --> 00:04:30,000 invaluable for me because it's really 111 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,639 been an education. Having that education 112 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:35,280 has made all the difference for me. If I 113 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:36,960 don't get those answers or that 114 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,759 feedback, I have no idea that anything 115 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:42,160 is wrong or that we've gone too far or 116 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,160 that we're overbudget. Just knowing 117 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,080 those things and having those answers is 118 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,560 important. I personally feel like every 119 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,400 writer who gets a show needs a blind 120 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,479 producers boot camp just to make sure 121 00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:54,080 that they know what they're doing and 122 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,919 what's going on. A lot of writers have 123 00:04:55,919 --> 00:04:58,080 no production experience whatsoever, 124 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,040 which is dangerous. I mean, it's the 125 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,720 thing of where I say the line, you know, 126 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,240 a lot of writers walk into a set and 127 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,880 don't understand how a set works. You 128 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,479 have to walk into a set and understand 129 00:05:08,479 --> 00:05:11,520 how a set works. I'm irrelevant on a set 130 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,360 because I don't have a job when I'm 131 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,759 standing on set at all. I always say 132 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:17,280 when I'm standing on a set, I'm the only 133 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,160 person not working. Um, but a lot of 134 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,600 writers don't quite understand how that 135 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,560 all works and they need to. 136 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,800 Aside from all of the usual, you want 137 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,240 people who are talented, you want people 138 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,520 who have something unique and bring 139 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,840 something to the table. For me, I always 140 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,680 want an actor that sparks something in 141 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,039 my imagination, obviously. So, when 142 00:05:43,039 --> 00:05:45,600 you're casting a role, it's never really 143 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,759 about how someone looks specifically. I 144 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:51,919 never ask for a type. Um, any sort of 145 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:53,919 kind of actor can come in for a specific 146 00:05:53,919 --> 00:05:56,639 role. It's not about that. So, it's 147 00:05:56,639 --> 00:05:57,919 really about somebody who sparks 148 00:05:57,919 --> 00:05:59,440 something in my imagination that makes 149 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,759 me feel like I can write for them. But 150 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:03,680 then once you found somebody, there's 151 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,080 always what I like to call the vetting 152 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,400 process. For me, that's really about 153 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,039 finding three people in town who can 154 00:06:11,039 --> 00:06:12,960 tell you that the actor is a good 155 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,280 person. And that's because I have 156 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:16,720 learned that you end up working with 157 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,199 people for a really long time. And you 158 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:21,919 want to work with people that you like. 159 00:06:21,919 --> 00:06:24,960 and a creative process. I mean, it's 160 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,960 very intimate, interestingly enough. You 161 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,120 spend a lot of time with people. You 162 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,880 spend a lot of time sort of inside their 163 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,280 head and they're inside of yours. It's a 164 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,880 very um special relationship when it 165 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,400 works. And you want it to work. And for 166 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,479 the other actors on that set, you owe it 167 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:44,720 to them and to the crew and to the 168 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,120 writers to have people there who are 169 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,360 excited about being there, who are fun 170 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,919 to work with. because a lot of times the 171 00:06:51,919 --> 00:06:53,840 mood of the actors and the the 172 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,600 temperament of the actors determines the 173 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,080 temperament of the set sometimes. So for 174 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,080 me it's all about like we find these 175 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,599 great actors and then I'm like are they 176 00:07:01,599 --> 00:07:03,599 also great people? And we've been really 177 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:06,599 fortunate. 178 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,039 So there is a lot of sex on our shows 179 00:07:15,039 --> 00:07:16,880 although there isn't interestingly 180 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,639 enough. 181 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:20,080 What I think is interesting is that 182 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,840 people seem to think that there's a ton 183 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,560 of sex on our shows. We're a network 184 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,240 television show. All of our shows are 185 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,360 network television shows. So, there is 186 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,080 no sex on our shows because you cannot 187 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,520 show sex on television. Um, what you can 188 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,960 show is sexiness on television. And I 189 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,479 actually take great pride in that 190 00:07:40,479 --> 00:07:44,240 because I feel like we have found a way 191 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,720 to depict intimacy and a ton of sexiness 192 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,199 and convey to you that all kinds of hot 193 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:53,199 hot things are happening without 194 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:57,039 actually showing any body parts or 195 00:07:57,039 --> 00:07:59,759 depicting any sex acts. You might think 196 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:01,520 you've seen us depict some sex acts, but 197 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,560 we have not. I think what's great is, 198 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,520 you know, cable you can show anything. 199 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,840 we can't and that makes for a lot of 200 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,039 creativity and we've done things that 201 00:08:15,039 --> 00:08:18,319 I think make it hotter because you can't 202 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:19,840 you have to use your imagination to 203 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,479 figure out what's going on and I like a 204 00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:25,039 horror movie what your imagination fills 205 00:08:25,039 --> 00:08:27,599 in is often far more graphic and far 206 00:08:27,599 --> 00:08:29,280 more interesting than what you'd 207 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,759 actually see. So, in a lot of ways, I 208 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:33,039 think our scenes can be perceived as 209 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:34,479 being much hotter than the ones you see 210 00:08:34,479 --> 00:08:36,560 on cable because you can't tell what you 211 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:37,919 don't know what's happening. You have to 212 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:40,479 imagine it. I have a lot of rules about 213 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:43,360 the way we do sex scenes in Shaand. You 214 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,360 know, in a lot of shows, it's about 215 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,120 displaying pieces of the woman's body, 216 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,040 whether she's really naked or not. You 217 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,200 know, it's all her naked back, her naked 218 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,800 stomach, her naked thighs, whatever it 219 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,399 is. In Shaoland, I say to every single 220 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:00,080 woman on our shows, you can do a sex 221 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,760 scene in a snowsuit if you tell me 222 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,200 that's what you want to do. I really 223 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,800 don't care. Your body needs to be 224 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,959 covered from neck to ankles. Fine. We 225 00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:08,720 will figure out a way to make this work 226 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,240 because I want everyone woman to feel 227 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,760 comfortable. Like you don't ever want to 228 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,120 feel like you've been treated badly in 229 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,959 that way because I think it happens too 230 00:09:16,959 --> 00:09:19,680 many times. And the directors really get 231 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:22,480 the direction that the woman on the set 232 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,240 gets to decide how she wants the scene 233 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,160 to go. She needs to feel 100% 234 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,320 comfortable. Um, sometimes I appear on 235 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,000 set and I call myself the human chastity 236 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,720 belt. Um, but the directors really work 237 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,959 with us and work with the actors to make 238 00:09:34,959 --> 00:09:36,720 sure that they feel comfortable and that 239 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,480 what we're choreographing because a lot 240 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,480 of times it's not written. I've written 241 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,399 in scenes. This sex scene should happen 242 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:44,800 in whatever way our lead actress and 243 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,279 actor feel comfortable. Just make it 244 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:49,519 sexy. I mean, I've written that so that 245 00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:52,480 nobody feels like they've been forced to 246 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,760 do anything. And sometimes I've been 247 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,240 very specific about what we want to see. 248 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,160 It just depends. And there's always a 249 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,920 meeting ahead of time to discuss what 250 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,480 it's going to look like. 251 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:09,920 A set is not about the director and a 252 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,839 set is not about an actors. A set is 253 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:14,320 about the crew. They're the ones running 254 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,360 it. It's their set. They're the experts 255 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,000 there and everybody else is kind of the 256 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,920 guest. Do you know what I mean? And it 257 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,959 it's really important that their work 258 00:10:24,959 --> 00:10:26,959 get the respect it deserves so that 259 00:10:26,959 --> 00:10:29,279 things can actually run smoothly and 260 00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:33,040 frankly look good, happen, be on time, 261 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,760 work. And I think that a lot of people 262 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,240 don't necessarily know that coming in. 263 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,079 If you're if you're a writer coming in, 264 00:10:40,079 --> 00:10:41,279 you don't necessarily know that. If 265 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:42,399 you're an actor coming in, you don't 266 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:44,320 necessarily know that. And if you're not 267 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,480 in this business, a lot of times I don't 268 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,880 think people necessarily think about how 269 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,040 extraordinary extraordinary the craft of 270 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,920 the crew is. So to me, that is 271 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,240 everything. In episodic television, the 272 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,440 crew stays the same, the cast stays the 273 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:00,959 same, the writers stay the same. What 274 00:11:00,959 --> 00:11:02,959 changes are the director and the guest 275 00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:06,000 stars really. So basically, you become 276 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,560 this really great family. Um, I've never 277 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,240 had a show go less than six seasons. So 278 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,640 for me, everybody's, you know, it's 279 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,399 becomes this very big extended family 280 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:18,000 that, you know, and we've had people, 281 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,360 you know, go from one show to the other 282 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,760 show to the other show. So it's kind of 283 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,640 lovely to know all these people for so 284 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,399 long and to get to work with everybody 285 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:29,120 in this way. And in Shaoland, it becomes 286 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,120 like one big Shaoland family. We have 287 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,519 five crews right now and that's 288 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:35,920 fantastic. 1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,280 What is a showrunner? 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,480 A showrunner is 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,080 I'd say a lot of people say it's 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,440 different things to different people, 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,560 but to me a showrunner is somebody who 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,960 keeps a show running. They keep a 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,480 television show running. And that is a 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,320 very important way of putting it. Um, 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,560 and most of the time a showrunner is a 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,720 writer. Not necessarily always the 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,200 creator of the show, but always an 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,559 executive producer. Um, and they're the 13 00:00:36,559 --> 00:00:37,760 person who's responsible for basically 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,520 keep the keeping the trains running on 15 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,360 time, making sure the scripts happen, 16 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,360 making sure you're staying sort of on 17 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:44,960 budget as prescribed by the line 18 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,200 producer, making sure the actors are as 19 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,760 happy as they need to be, working with 20 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,840 the crew and the line producing side of 21 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,440 the team, talking to the studio and the 22 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,360 network, making sure the writer room is 23 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,000 moving forward. um making sure that the 24 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,120 scripts are creatively what the studio 25 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,640 and the network are hopeful for, but 26 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,799 also protecting the the creative vision. 27 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:07,600 It's a big job. I'm a fairly fierce 28 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,400 showrunner. I like to say for me, I feel 29 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,840 like my best work is about being keeper 30 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,200 of the story. Like my commitment, my 31 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,880 real most important job for the audience 32 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,640 is to be fully committed to the 33 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,960 storytelling. And so when it comes down 34 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,280 to it, that is where my allegiances 35 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,799 always have to lie, the story. And so 36 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:32,240 that is where all my decisions come 37 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,680 from. There can be a big conflict when 38 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,720 you're a showrunner between the creative 39 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,360 and artistic side and the financial side 40 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,960 and the sort of business side of things. 41 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,560 You know, there's the financial side. 42 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,479 You're given a budget for every episode. 43 00:01:50,479 --> 00:01:52,079 It's like a little movie. You have to 44 00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:54,960 stick to it. you're given sort of a 45 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,040 mandate by this the studio network of 46 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,119 what they want creatively and I don't 47 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,479 mean they're dictating to you what the 48 00:02:00,479 --> 00:02:02,240 episode should be about but say you've 49 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,320 been you've promised them a show about 50 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,319 Meredith Gray she's a surgeon she's 51 00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:09,679 working as hard as she can to make it as 52 00:02:09,679 --> 00:02:11,920 a surgeon you can't then deliver them a 53 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,160 show about Meredith Gray who's become a 54 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,000 surfer and she's working as hard as she 55 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,280 can to surf and not going to the 56 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,840 hospital very often for instance and 57 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,440 then you have your creative side which 58 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,400 is you have to follow the story as the 59 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,640 story is dictated in your creative 60 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,640 spirit and soul and as the characters 61 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:31,440 drive it and all of those things have to 62 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,280 work together. Now, a lot of it is for 63 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:37,519 me sticking to the storytelling. 64 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:38,879 Storytelling is the most important 65 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:40,720 thing. I have to follow the characters, 66 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,720 but I also have to stay within the 67 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,640 millions of dollars of budget that I've 68 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,239 been given for this season. And I cannot 69 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:48,480 go over that because if you go over that 70 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,440 then you are being fiscally 71 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,040 irresponsible and you are messing with 72 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,000 the studio network's money. 73 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,319 I think the skills necessary to be a 74 00:03:00,319 --> 00:03:02,159 successful showrunner really have to do 75 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:05,519 with the ability to communicate. 76 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:07,599 Honestly, 77 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:09,440 what happens to a lot of people is they 78 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,159 get afraid. And this frankly is for 79 00:03:12,159 --> 00:03:14,400 everything in life. People get afraid. 80 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400 And so because they're afraid, they stop 81 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,560 communicating. Their fear makes them 82 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,080 shut up. They think if I say less, 83 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,360 people won't know that I don't know 84 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,440 anything. When the best thing you can do 85 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,959 is say, "I'm the showrunner. We're 86 00:03:26,959 --> 00:03:29,599 $100,000 over budget. I don't know why." 87 00:03:29,599 --> 00:03:31,519 And then you say, "I don't know why. I 88 00:03:31,519 --> 00:03:33,120 don't know what's happening. I'm 89 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,440 confused." The best thing you can do is 90 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,440 admit you don't know stuff. Or to admit 91 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,519 that you want to do something and you 92 00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:41,120 can't explain why. You just want to do 93 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,000 it. The honesty that comes with that of 94 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,680 continuously talking and opening your 95 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,000 mouth and saying what's going on is 96 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,480 priceless. Because what all people want 97 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,560 is information. And if your information 98 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,519 is I don't know, that's even better than 99 00:03:55,519 --> 00:03:57,200 silence because silence makes people 100 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:58,879 think you're crazy. You don't know what 101 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:01,200 you're doing. You're you know anything. 102 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,680 And that's dangerous 103 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,239 when you're overbudget on an episode. 104 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:14,000 when your budget is sort of stretched a 105 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,360 little too much and things are going 106 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,639 bad, you can either have the 107 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:20,799 conversation that makes you seem 108 00:04:20,799 --> 00:04:22,800 irresponsible or you can have the 109 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:23,840 conversation that makes you seem 110 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:26,080 creative. And I think that there are 111 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,240 ways to do that. 112 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,560 The key to working with your studio is 113 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,120 to make them your partner, not your 114 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,160 keeper. And I think a lot of people make 115 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,840 the mistake of making their studio their 116 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:39,919 keeper and treating their studio like 117 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:41,199 they're their keeper. And it's a 118 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:42,800 terrible, you know, clashing 119 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,040 relationship. I think it's important to 120 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,880 speak to your studio and to talk to the 121 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,720 people at your studio as if they're your 122 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,479 creative partners and say, "Here's what 123 00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:51,919 we want to do. Do you guys like this 124 00:04:51,919 --> 00:04:53,360 too?" Because if you do, then they 125 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,120 understand why you're overbudget. And 126 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,320 you say, "If you like it, too, then 127 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:57,680 maybe we could do it this way. What do 128 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,840 you think? How do you feel about this?" 129 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,440 If they have been included in the 130 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,199 process, in the thought process, they 131 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:04,880 are more likely to be happy to sign off 132 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,880 on a higher budget. If they have not 133 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,960 been included, they are less likely to 134 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,120 sign off. They need to be part of the 135 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,960 process. It's a much more intelligent 136 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,320 way of approaching things. It's much 137 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 more mature than sort of stomping your 138 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:17,840 feet and closing your door and saying, 139 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:20,160 "You give me what I want or else." That 140 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,720 doesn't work. It's not it's not a mature 141 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,960 or actually functional way of doing 142 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,880 anything. And most people try to do it 143 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,400 that way, I think. And that's what gets 144 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,400 you into trouble in the early days. Once 145 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,479 again, communication is always the way 146 00:05:34,479 --> 00:05:37,479 through. 147 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,000 As I've gone along more, I've also tried 148 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,520 to really learn how to empower the 149 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,520 people under me because I want them to 150 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,280 all know how to run shows. I've been 151 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:50,800 able to empower people and say like you 152 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,680 run you run this room, you do this job, 153 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,280 you you know to make sure that I'm 154 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,039 valuing the people who are working there 155 00:05:59,039 --> 00:06:02,320 and delegating in a way that's in a way 156 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,680 that makes sense because what are what's 157 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,840 my value? Like what am I being asked to 158 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:08,960 do? What am I really supposed to be 159 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:09,919 doing? I'm supposed to be the 160 00:06:09,919 --> 00:06:12,160 storyteller. And if I'm spending most of 161 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,800 my time explaining to somebody why the 162 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,280 budget is too high or something, that's 163 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:20,080 not really what ABC hired me to do, you 164 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,919 know, it's not really what's what's 165 00:06:21,919 --> 00:06:23,440 going on there. I really should be 166 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,720 working as hard as I can to make the 167 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,600 best story possible. So, I try to I try 168 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 to do the pieces of my job that I am 169 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,880 best at and then try to find like Betsy 170 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,400 Beers, who's my producing partner, I try 171 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,840 to get her to do the pieces of my job 172 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,680 that I am not the best at. And we've 173 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:39,840 sort of come to that over time simply 174 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:41,840 because otherwise I'm not going to have 175 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,199 time to tell story. We have too many 176 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,440 shows. I think leadership is really 177 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:46,960 about making sure that the people who 178 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,240 work work with you and for you 179 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,720 feel valued and feel like they are also 180 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,240 getting opportunities. You know, 181 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,840 a lot of ways leadership is about making 182 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,160 sure that you're not working in a in a 183 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,639 hero model where everything depends on 184 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:04,240 you so that everyone's like, "Oh, 185 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,560 Shondaanda." That's not interesting. And 186 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,479 it's not interesting for them and it 187 00:07:08,479 --> 00:07:10,080 shouldn't be interesting for me. 188 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,080 Everything should be a team model. Like 189 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,400 everybody is valuable and everybody is 190 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,919 necessary for Shaan to succeed and 191 00:07:17,919 --> 00:07:19,919 everybody should have that feeling. If 192 00:07:19,919 --> 00:07:21,840 they're not feeling that then there's 193 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:22,880 something wrong with the way I'm 194 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,919 leading. So to me, making sure that 195 00:07:25,919 --> 00:07:28,479 everyone feels valued probably is the 196 00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:32,280 most important thing. 197 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,000 The best thing to remember about being 198 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,960 incredibly busy and you know coming up 199 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:42,960 I'll have six shows on the air. Two of 200 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,960 which I've created and four of which you 201 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,199 know we're executive producing. The best 202 00:07:47,199 --> 00:07:49,199 way to stay organized is to remember 203 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,520 that the busier you are the more 204 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,919 productive you are in an interesting way 205 00:07:53,919 --> 00:07:58,160 to and to keep your time very clearly um 206 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,879 managed. I've stopped reading emails 207 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:03,599 almost entirely except for once a day. 208 00:08:03,599 --> 00:08:06,160 And I get 2500 emails a day, which is 209 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,400 why I've stopped reading emails. One, 210 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,160 I've realized that most of the emails, 211 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,479 even the work ones, are pointless. 212 00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:14,879 People send emails to send emails now, 213 00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:17,599 which is fascinating. So, one, I've 214 00:08:17,599 --> 00:08:18,800 stopped reading emails, which used to 215 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,759 take up ridiculous amounts of my time. 216 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:24,560 Two, I've really started to close the 217 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,360 door to my office and give myself the 218 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,319 hour I need to focus on whatever it is I 219 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:31,840 need to focus on. And I say the door to 220 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,440 my office is closed. Do not bother me 221 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,120 unless it's, you know, the president of 222 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,640 the network. Um, three, I've really 223 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,560 tried to spend time doing the things 224 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:42,959 that I know are necessary and thinking 225 00:08:42,959 --> 00:08:45,440 of it that way. You know, what are the 226 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,160 things that the day cannot go by without 227 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,480 me doing? Other than that, everything 228 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,200 else is extra. And then I'll have these 229 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,800 pockets of time where I'll discover, oh, 230 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,839 wait, I have some time here. I've also 231 00:08:57,839 --> 00:09:00,080 truly learned that the work will always 232 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,279 be there tomorrow. So, I try to go home 233 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:06,800 every night and put everything down and 234 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,640 I don't answer any emails after 7:00 235 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,320 p.m. or phone calls after 7:00 p.m. And 236 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,760 I do not work on weekends if I can help 237 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,760 it. I write on weekends because I always 238 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,399 write on I write every day, but I don't 239 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:19,200 work on weekends and I try really hard 240 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,080 not to. Um, mainly because I'm already 241 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,880 up at 5:00 a.m. doing things and if I 242 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,399 did that, I would be burned out beyond 243 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:28,800 belief, which is what I was before when 244 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,440 I started doing this. 245 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,600 You have to be a really good leader. You 246 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,000 have to be able to create a family um 247 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,160 amongst your crew, amongst your cast. 248 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,959 You have to make people feel welcome if 249 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:47,440 you can. 250 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,320 There's there's so many qualities and 251 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,440 you have to be a good writer. You have 252 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,560 to be able to get into that writer's 253 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:54,640 room and keep the room moving forward. 254 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,760 You have to have a sense of story 255 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,760 structure. You have to be able to write 256 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,120 and I mean really write. You have to be 257 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,800 able to rewrite. 258 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,560 The 259 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,560 most important thing, and these are all 260 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:05,600 these things I'm telling. You have to be 261 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,200 a business person. You have to be a 262 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,480 mother. You have to be a a I don't know 263 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,640 a therapist. And you have to be able to 264 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,360 write really quickly because the worst 265 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,640 thing that can happen is to have a 266 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,720 showrunner who can't write fast. I can 267 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,120 write a draft in 5 hours if I have to. 268 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,880 But there are some showrunners who they 269 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,200 cannot do that and therefore none of the 270 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:26,560 other things matter because they can't 271 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,279 keep the room running on time at all. 272 00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:32,240 And you can only buy that if 273 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,480 frankly if you're me like I can I can be 274 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:35,440 like we're not going to get a script for 275 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,600 four days but I can I've earned that 276 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,440 right. You don't earn that right from 277 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,200 the beginning. You have to prove 278 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,200 yourself 279 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,160 in terms of working with younger writers 280 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,680 empowering them and sort of raising them 281 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:52,800 to be the next generation of 282 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,120 showrunners. I think that's important 283 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,519 for several reasons. But the biggest 284 00:10:57,519 --> 00:11:00,399 reason I think is because 285 00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:03,279 you know this is a town where it's a 286 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:04,800 smaller town than people think. You know 287 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,160 people think of Hollywood as being this 288 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,079 big fancy place where there's all these 289 00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:10,240 opportunities. It's in a weird way a 290 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,959 small town and the opportunities can be 291 00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:15,600 limited mainly because it's insular. 292 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,600 People hire who they know. They hire 293 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,399 their friends kids. So that's what sort 294 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:23,200 of perpetuates the image of it being a 295 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,360 town where it's hard to break into and 296 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,800 that there's not a lot of diversity. 297 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,240 It's not it doesn't look like the normal 298 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,000 world. 299 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,079 So part of what I'm interested in doing 300 00:11:32,079 --> 00:11:34,480 is making opportunities for people who 301 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,320 wouldn't necessarily find their way 302 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,120 through the door. And I think that it's 303 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,120 important because finding your way 304 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,600 through the door isn't as easy as saying 305 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,079 to your friend's dad, "Hey, I'd love a 306 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:48,079 job." if you don't know anybody in this 307 00:11:48,079 --> 00:11:49,680 town. 308 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:51,519 And sometimes it's not that easy to get 309 00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:53,760 your script read or to get a way in. So 310 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,720 to me, part of what happens for me, it's 311 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,040 about training people. And what I see 312 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,720 happen a lot is people say, "Well, that 313 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,560 person was great when they came in, but 314 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:03,920 they don't have enough training. They 315 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,079 don't know enough." So I say, "Let's 316 00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:08,240 train them. Let's get people in the 317 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,760 door. Let's get women. Let's get people 318 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,360 of color. Let's get people, you know, 319 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,360 who haven't necessarily normally had 320 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,560 access." and anybody who doesn't have 321 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,560 access by knowing somebody already 322 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,480 through this door and give them the 323 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,440 training they need. And that has worked 324 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,639 like gang busters for us. 325 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,800 I think I wanted to be a showrunner 326 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,399 because 327 00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:37,279 I wanted to run my own show. You know, I 328 00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:39,519 I felt like I really knew and understood 329 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:41,760 it. I felt like I was working really 330 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,000 hard at it and I thought I would enjoy 331 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,399 it. I mean, I honestly felt like it was 332 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:47,680 a challenge that I thought I would 333 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:50,079 enjoy. I don't know that I think every 334 00:12:50,079 --> 00:12:53,600 writer could or should be a showrunner. 335 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,920 I don't necessarily think it's that much 336 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,639 fun. The thing to remember though is if 337 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:00,720 you don't want to be a showrunner or 338 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,639 don't desire to be a showrunner, you 339 00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:06,480 will always be working for someone else. 340 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,000 And if that's okay with you, then great. 341 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Um, but if it's not okay with you, then 342 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,560 you need to be a showrunner. And anytime 343 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,480 anybody tells you you can create the 344 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,000 show and someone else will run it, don't 345 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,920 worry, it's going to be fine. They're 346 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,240 not telling you the truth. Because the 347 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,680 thing to remember is that a showrunner 348 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:27,040 can always um take over. That's why 349 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,800 they're the showrunner. I don't know 350 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,079 that I knew that I would be a good 351 00:13:30,079 --> 00:13:34,639 showrunner except I felt like I knew the 352 00:13:34,639 --> 00:13:37,279 show better than anybody else. I mean, I 353 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:40,320 remember with Grey's Anatomy that people 354 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,800 would say to me, "What color shoes is 355 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:43,839 Meredith wearing?" And I'd be like, 356 00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:46,480 "Zebra print loafers." Like, I just knew 357 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,800 in a strange way, which was very 358 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,040 bizarre. But I felt like I had 359 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,880 internalized that show in such a way. 360 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,240 I'd spent so much time thinking about 361 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,639 it, I would dream about it, that it was 362 00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:58,399 literally like it was all I did for for 363 00:13:58,399 --> 00:13:59,920 a while cuz I was so intent on being 364 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,880 good at it that it felt like a natural 365 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,360 thing for me to do. I learned everything 366 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,279 I know about television while making 367 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:09,120 television, including how to write a 368 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,880 television show, including how to write 369 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,720 a television series, including how to 370 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,560 write television for more than one 371 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,079 season, two seasons, three season, four 372 00:14:16,079 --> 00:14:17,920 seasons, whatever. I feel like I've 373 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,160 learned everything I know about TV on 374 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,560 the job. So, I definitely think 375 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,160 learning how to be a showrunner really 376 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,079 does take the doing. You can't really 377 00:14:28,079 --> 00:14:29,760 read a book about how to be a showrunner 378 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,560 and truly learn how to do it. It's you 379 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,240 can't learn how to put out a fire by 380 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,760 reading about how to put out a fire. 381 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:36,959 There has to be a fire for you to put 382 00:14:36,959 --> 00:14:38,720 out for you to really understand what 383 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,279 it's like to put out a fire. Don't set 384 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,199 fires, but you know what I mean. Um, 385 00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:46,560 yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot you 386 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,399 can learn about the technical aspects, 387 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:50,560 but I do think you need to actually be 388 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,480 doing the job to figure it out or at 389 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,320 least be working directly under somebody 390 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,760 who's doing the job and get to watch 391 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,160 from very close up what it's like. When 392 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,079 I was starting out and my first show in 393 00:15:00,079 --> 00:15:02,320 Grey's Anatomy season 1, I worked with 394 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,720 James Priet, who was our showrunner, and 395 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,320 he was great. He taught me everything. 396 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,600 A couple of the things that he taught me 397 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,519 that I feel like are the old school 398 00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:15,120 lessons are you never put your name on 399 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,720 someone else's script even if you've 400 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,240 rewritten that script. Mainly because 401 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,160 you are it's your job to rewrite that 402 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,839 script. It is your job to put you know 403 00:15:23,839 --> 00:15:27,519 to put your um computer put put your pen 404 00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:30,399 so to speak on everyone else's script. 405 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,519 It's how it works. If you're not 406 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:34,800 rewriting their script then you're not 407 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,639 doing your job. So there's absolutely no 408 00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:38,639 reason why you should be taking credit 409 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:39,920 for the thing you were supposed to be 410 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:41,680 doing in the first place. It's 411 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,079 interesting having been, you know, 412 00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:47,920 having done this for so long to discover 413 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,120 how much I know, you know, we have these 414 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,680 moments now where things will happen, 415 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,120 you know, like a crisis will happen and 416 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,800 they're not they're not considered 417 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,399 crises anymore because I can solve them 418 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:03,759 in my sleep. Like I can go, we're going 419 00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:05,120 to do this, this, this, and this. Don't 420 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,160 worry about it. This will happen and 421 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,800 this will happen and it's 10 minutes. 422 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,560 Something that would have taken us days 423 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,560 to figure out how to solve or handle 424 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,800 takes 10 minutes now because we're so 425 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,240 used to doing it. We're so used to 426 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,399 handling it. And it's because we have 427 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:20,399 all this experience now. It's old hat. 428 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,320 And I I turned to Betsy one day and I 429 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,399 said, I think we're now the 430 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,639 establishment. We're like the old guard. 431 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:28,880 We could teach anybody how to do this at 432 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,240 this point because we're not even 433 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,079 worried anymore when something happens 434 00:16:32,079 --> 00:16:34,800 that needs to be fixed. and she laughed 435 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,399 and she said, "Yeah, I I think this is 436 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:37,839 it. Like, we're the we're the old 437 00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:40,639 people." And that's it's kind of great 438 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:42,399 to realize that nothing phases us 439 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:44,880 anymore. 1 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,000 The sentence I don't like the most to 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,240 hear from people is I want to be a 3 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:18,480 writer. You either are a writer or 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,920 you're not a writer. You may not be a 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,080 working writer, but you either are a 6 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,600 writer or you're not a writer. It's like 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,640 when people say I want to be a singer. 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,320 Either you can sing or you can't sing, 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,160 right? you either you write or you 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,120 don't. So to me, it's just you're a 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,480 writer. Go write. Prove yourself to be a 12 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:37,840 writer. Nobody has to pay you in order 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,840 to write. You have to just find the time 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,920 and do it. Even if you like have like 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,640 five kids and you work a job, you can 16 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,280 find 10 minutes a day to write something 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,280 down. Really, you really can. And it's 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,480 it doesn't have to be the greatest thing 19 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:53,760 in the world. You don't have to be the 20 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,520 most thrilled by it, but you have to be 21 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,760 able to access your creative space. Even 22 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,840 just 10 minutes a day for yourself. Even 23 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,120 if you're just waiting for people to 24 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,879 like like your kids put all them in the 25 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:04,479 bathtub and you write for 10 minutes a 26 00:01:04,479 --> 00:01:06,960 day or you know you're on the subway, 27 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:08,320 you write for 10 minutes a day. Whatever 28 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:10,400 it is, find yourself a little bit of 29 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,799 time to write every single day. I'm sure 30 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:14,240 there are excuses that are acceptable 31 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,799 for not writing every day. Absolutely. 32 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:19,759 But once again, I say a writer is 33 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:22,479 someone who writes every day. So if 34 00:01:22,479 --> 00:01:24,240 you're not going to write every day, 35 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,400 then you cannot call yourself a writer. 36 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,560 The same you just can't. And it's fine 37 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:29,840 and there's nothing wrong with that. 38 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,400 It's just it's the idea that you need to 39 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,640 make peace with that reality. Like you 40 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,240 can decide that you're not going to 41 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,240 write every day. And there is nothing 42 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:39,759 wrong with not writing every day, but 43 00:01:39,759 --> 00:01:41,200 then don't run around and call yourself 44 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,200 an aspiring writer because if you really 45 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,880 wanted to be a writer, that is what you 46 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,200 would be doing. 47 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,720 I don't think you ever find a work life 48 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,960 balance. And I think it's a falsehood to 49 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,320 make anybody feel like they're supposed 50 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,360 to find a work life balance. There's no 51 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,600 good way to be a great mother and to be 52 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,920 great at your job at the same time and 53 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,000 to feel like you are going to kill it at 54 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,640 both and be amazing at both and never 55 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:14,720 feel guilty about sherking one duty or 56 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,160 another. Like work life balance is a lie 57 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,160 that we are fed to make us feel bad 58 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,720 about ourselves. I feel like it doesn't 59 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,239 exist. There are always going to be 60 00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:25,280 times when you feel like a terrible 61 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:26,239 mother and there are always going to be 62 00:02:26,239 --> 00:02:27,280 times when you feel like you're terrible 63 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,239 at your job. That is just how it goes. 64 00:02:30,239 --> 00:02:33,040 Also, for most women, going to work is 65 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,800 not an option. So, I always feel like 66 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,239 this how do you achieve work life 67 00:02:36,239 --> 00:02:39,120 balance thing is really disingenuous. 68 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,440 Most women have to go to work to feed 69 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,080 their families, to pay their bills. I am 70 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,080 fortunate that I have a great job and 71 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,000 I'm excit but most women have to go to 72 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,120 work to feed their families and pay 73 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,800 their bills. So to then suggest that 74 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,879 it's sort of like a a work life balance 75 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:55,680 thing is a choice. It's not a choice. 76 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,680 You have to go to work. You have to take 77 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,120 care of your kids. You're going to feel 78 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,879 guilty either way. It's okay. Like 79 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:04,560 that's how it should be. It should be 80 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,480 okay to not feel like you're getting it 81 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,000 right all the time cuz nobody ever is. 82 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,239 I don't think I ever really thought 83 00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:18,400 about the fact that there weren't many 84 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,640 black women writing television. I don't 85 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,800 think I ever thought about it at all. I 86 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,959 mean, I think growing up, the concept 87 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:27,599 that there weren't any black women doing 88 00:03:27,599 --> 00:03:29,040 television really came down to the fact 89 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:30,879 that I didn't realize that this was a 90 00:03:30,879 --> 00:03:34,080 job. And part of that comes from the 91 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,480 fact that it didn't seem like a job 92 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,480 where there was access available to 93 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,879 anybody but guys, white guys who knew 94 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:43,599 other white guys in a lot of ways. It it 95 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:47,440 is a buddy system town in that sense. So 96 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,080 when I got here, I don't know that I 97 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,040 felt um influenced or intimidated by the 98 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,480 fact that there weren't any black women. 99 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,640 I think I was a person who's very lucky 100 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,319 because I went to college um at 101 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:05,840 Dartmouth, which is uh for better, for 102 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,519 worse, in its best ways, a place I 103 00:04:07,519 --> 00:04:10,640 loved, but it's a frat boy town. And I 104 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,239 was very used to sitting in rooms full 105 00:04:14,239 --> 00:04:18,320 of white guys. And that was awesome for 106 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,720 me in the sense that I am not a person 107 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,040 who has ever felt uncomfortable in any 108 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,120 room. I belong in any room that I enter. 109 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,759 And I know that and I think for a lot of 110 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:31,040 women, for women of color, um, as well, 111 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,240 there is a sense of, um, discomfort when 112 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:35,759 you enter a room full of straight white 113 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:38,160 men and you think to yourself, do I 114 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,240 belong in this room? I I'm the only 115 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,840 person who's different in this room. Do 116 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,000 I belong? It's never occurred to me that 117 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,120 I don't belong. So, that's been really 118 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,199 helpful for me. And I think that's the 119 00:04:49,199 --> 00:04:51,360 my favorite piece of advice to give 120 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,520 anybody. Remember that you belong in any 121 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:54,960 room that you enter. And if you don't 122 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,280 feel like you truly belong, act like you 123 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:01,840 belong. Part of it is simply, what's the 124 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,360 alternative? 125 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,800 I mean, I don't know how you can go 126 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,199 through life walking into rooms and 127 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:11,680 allowing other people to feel like or to 128 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,960 make you feel like you don't belong. 129 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,120 That's crazy. Because if they can make 130 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:18,560 you feel like you don't belong, that 131 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,080 means that they get to have everything 132 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,720 and you don't get to have anything. That 133 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,880 is unacceptable. 134 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,680 I mean 135 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,520 that is unacceptable considering where 136 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,440 we are in this world right now. So to me 137 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,280 you have to belong in every room. That's 138 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,680 not an option 139 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,560 to me. Badasserie is a little bit about 140 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,720 having just a little bit of swagger. 141 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,199 like getting to feel 142 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:52,240 like you like yourself, like you're into 143 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,000 yourself, like you think that you're 144 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,680 kind of all that. Like there's nothing 145 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,639 wrong with thinking that you're amazing. 146 00:05:58,639 --> 00:06:02,400 And it's interesting how much women are 147 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,080 unable to take those compliments in and 148 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,919 to feel good about themselves because of 149 00:06:07,919 --> 00:06:10,400 it. and and how it's not just women, 150 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,600 frankly, it's a lot of people who feel 151 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,759 like there's something wrong with not 152 00:06:13,759 --> 00:06:16,080 sort of displaying humility and 153 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,160 humbleness 100% of the time. Whereas, 154 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,120 you should feel like it's okay. Like, I 155 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,120 don't know, there was this moment in my 156 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:26,400 book, and I sort of discovered it while 157 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,280 I was writing it, where I said people go 158 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,319 to therapists. They pay people to teach 159 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:34,479 them to like themselves, to be into 160 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:36,080 themselves, to think that they should 161 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,120 love themselves. And we're taught that 162 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:40,560 we're not supposed to suggest that those 163 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:41,600 things are things that people should 164 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,800 want us to do. It's crazy. Like, come 165 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,560 on. There's nothing wrong with having a 166 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,000 little swagger. Own it. As Muhammad Ali 167 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,440 used to say, it's not bragging if you 168 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,240 can back it up. And there's something 169 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:55,440 good about enjoying your 170 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,160 accomplishments. Not in a rude way, but 171 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,240 just enjoying it a little bit. having a 172 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,680 little swagger and getting to appreciate 173 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,720 anything that you've done. Um, that is 174 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 good. I try more to appreciate the 175 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,240 moments when I feel like I'm a little 176 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,880 bit of a badass and things are working. 177 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,400 It's harder. I mean, I think it's hard 178 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,440 for anybody, but it's hard. But there 179 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,440 are these moments when things get really 180 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,199 when things are really good and things 181 00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:27,280 are really fun and you can you can allow 182 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,039 yourself I can allow myself to look 183 00:07:29,039 --> 00:07:32,000 around and go, "Yeah, this is good. I'm 184 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,560 a badass. I'm enjoying this." A lot of 185 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,880 times it's it's at work when you're 186 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,199 realizing that, you know, you're the 187 00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,240 boss and that's not a bad thing and 188 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,560 you're in like my work is fun and I feel 189 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,680 lucky. That helps sometimes when it's 190 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,880 hard, when you're there too long, 191 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,039 whatever, to think like, "Dude, this is 192 00:07:51,039 --> 00:07:52,720 such a great job. You're lucky. You're a 193 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,680 badass. Enjoy it." And I think women 194 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,120 should give themselves a chance to have 195 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,919 those moments more in at any moment. 196 00:07:59,919 --> 00:08:02,639 Like, we're always, you know, taught to 197 00:08:02,639 --> 00:08:04,720 push it away and don't celebrate your 198 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:06,560 accomplishments. Every once in a while, 199 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,280 you should celebrate 1 00:00:06,319 --> 00:00:08,559 Both my parents um are educators. They 2 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:10,000 work in the education field. And what 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,400 was great about that is having sort of 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,559 two super nerdy intellectuals for 5 00:00:14,559 --> 00:00:17,920 parents meant that reading was pretty 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,039 much everything in my family. Books were 7 00:00:21,039 --> 00:00:23,279 treasures in my family. My house was 8 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:25,199 filled with them. My parents idea of a 9 00:00:25,199 --> 00:00:27,039 really good time was a book or a game of 10 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:30,320 chess. So, I spent a lot of time in the 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,480 library. My parents had a rule that I 12 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:34,079 could read whatever I wanted, no 13 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:36,000 questions asked. There was sort of no 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,360 censorship based on my age. None at all. 15 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,440 Which meant that I could sort of I 16 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:42,800 remember very clearly reading French 17 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,320 Lieutenant Woman when I was seven or 18 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,559 eight and, you know, asking my mother 19 00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:49,280 about some very interesting words and 20 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:50,879 her saying, you know, the dictionaries 21 00:00:50,879 --> 00:00:53,199 over there and going to look them up. 22 00:00:53,199 --> 00:00:55,440 But it also made me love reading. It 23 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,280 made me love books. It made me love the 24 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,039 written word. And that is everything. I 25 00:01:01,039 --> 00:01:03,199 think if you don't grow up with that 26 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:05,040 around you, finding your sense of 27 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,360 storytelling and finding your love of of 28 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,439 language and of words has to come from 29 00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:10,720 someplace else. It has to come from 30 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,119 outside. I was lucky enough to have that 31 00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:15,600 around me all the time. Writing felt 32 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,400 like something I could do mainly because 33 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,799 I couldn't imagine doing anything else. 34 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:24,000 I graduated from college and really felt 35 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,880 lost. I mean truly felt lost. The idea 36 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,119 of going to get one of those jobs that 37 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:30,799 all my friends went to get. I remember 38 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:32,479 doing the interviewing process in New 39 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:35,360 York and sitting in these meetings and 40 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,000 people talking about things that sounded 41 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,600 unbelievably boring to me. I mean, 42 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,280 working in these offices and doing these 43 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,799 things that I'm sure I would have been 44 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:45,200 fine doing. I just didn't want to do 45 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,720 them. 46 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,240 And 47 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,000 I'm kind of an overachiever, but I 48 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,759 wanted to love what I did. So, I 49 00:01:51,759 --> 00:01:53,360 literally moved to San Francisco and 50 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,920 lived in my sister's basement and got a 51 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,920 job at an advertising agency to just 52 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,640 make a living and I was miserable. 53 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,200 And then I read somewhere, I think it 54 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:04,960 was the New York Times, was an article 55 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,560 that said it was harder to get into USC 56 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,239 film school than it was to get into 57 00:02:08,239 --> 00:02:10,879 Harvard Law School. And I thought, well, 58 00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:13,200 my parents will have to support that 59 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,200 because it's hard to get into. It's 60 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,319 graduate school and it's education. And 61 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:21,120 so I applied and I got in and my parents 62 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,720 were supportive because they thought, 63 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,879 well, she can teach. She gets out, she 64 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:26,879 can teach this weird thing she wants to 65 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:29,920 do. And it seemed exciting at the time. 66 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:31,520 I mean, I think a lot of independent 67 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,599 filmmakers were starting to come out and 68 00:02:33,599 --> 00:02:35,360 Sex Lives and Videotape had just become 69 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,720 a thing. And that felt exciting. And so 70 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,879 I went to film school thinking, "Let's 71 00:02:40,879 --> 00:02:43,760 try this." And really fell in love with 72 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,560 it. I don't know that I ever doubted I 73 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,720 could pursue something. And I think that 74 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,519 is because I was raised by parents who 75 00:02:51,519 --> 00:02:53,360 were very 76 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,519 positive in a lot of ways. And even 77 00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:58,080 though they weren't necessarily thrilled 78 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,680 that I wanted to make a living out of 79 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,440 being a writer, they were also people 80 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:02,800 who said, "The only limits to your 81 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,640 success are your own imagination." I 82 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:06,159 mean, my father said that to me so much 83 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:08,480 that I could say it in my sleep at this 84 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,200 point. And I believed him. I mean, I 85 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,920 truly believed the idea that the only 86 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:15,280 limits to my success are my own 87 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,920 imagination. I'm pretty sure that if I 88 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:19,440 wanted to be an Olympic figure skater 89 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,000 right now, if I started working, I could 90 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,480 do it. And I'm not joking. Like, I I 91 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,040 that much believe that if I like believe 92 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,440 I can do it, I can do it. Now, I'd 93 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,640 probably be terrible at it, but I 94 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:32,640 believe that I could probably make it. 95 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,080 So there is this idea that I really did 96 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,680 get raised with this thought that there 97 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,519 were no barriers, there were no hurdles, 98 00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:41,519 they're just hills. 99 00:03:41,519 --> 00:03:44,959 And that's probably been the most 100 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:47,680 powerful lesson I've ever been taught. 101 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,680 So there's not a lot of times when I 102 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,319 felt like I can't do this. I I'm 103 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:55,360 discouraged. I want out of this town. My 104 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,680 relationship with ABC happened because I 105 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,319 had been writing movies. I had an agent. 106 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:01,920 I said, "I I think I'm interested in 107 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,439 writing TV because I've been watching a 108 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:06,319 lot of television." And they sent me 109 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,239 they were going to send me, I think, on 110 00:04:08,239 --> 00:04:11,920 meetings with a lot of people to see 111 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,400 what places I wanted to write TV at. And 112 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,959 I think I just went to see ABC Studios 113 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:19,840 at the time and immediately 114 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:21,440 um it felt right. We had a great 115 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,320 relationship. We had a great 116 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,400 conversation. It just felt like, oh, I 117 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,639 want to work with this studio. And the 118 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:29,280 studio then takes you to the networks to 119 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:31,440 pitch shows. And the first place they 120 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,120 take you at ABC studios is to ABC 121 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,720 network to pitch your shows. So I would 122 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,800 go and pitch shows at ABC. And so that's 123 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,280 just how that happened. The first pilot 124 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,000 I wrote was about um war correspondents 125 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,720 and it was really this amazing pilot as 126 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,720 far as I was concerned about women who 127 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,120 sort of drank a lot and had a little bit 128 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,840 too much fun covering war. and they were 129 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:57,680 very competitive and they weren't sort 130 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,280 of the women you'd normally have seen on 131 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:00,960 television before. You know, there was 132 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,400 one of the women had a child and she 133 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,680 kind of wasn't interested in talking to 134 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,040 her child as much as she was 135 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,880 photographing all of the things that 136 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,320 were happening around her and that 137 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,720 seemed controversial. But what was great 138 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,440 about it to me was that these were the 139 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,039 kind of women I know, except for the 140 00:05:15,039 --> 00:05:17,600 fact that they were covering war, but we 141 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,800 were at war. And suddenly it became a 142 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,880 little bit tasteless I think and truly 143 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,120 so to see these women having so much fun 144 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,880 covering something that was actually 145 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,280 happening to American soldiers. And so 146 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:30,560 we didn't get to make it which was such 147 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,320 a bummer. Also being my first pilot it 148 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,759 was I mean I made a fake city. We bombed 149 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:40,479 it. There were sieges. We had a giant 150 00:05:40,479 --> 00:05:42,160 stadium full of hostages. I mean it was 151 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,400 a little bit it it was a $10 million 152 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,240 movie. It was not a a small pilot. So, 153 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,520 um, I mean, it was probably a $50 154 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,440 million movie, but we ended up sort of 155 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:52,960 going, that's not something that can be 156 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,600 made right now, but I took the idea of 157 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,479 that, these competitive women who love 158 00:05:58,479 --> 00:05:59,840 their jobs more than they loved anything 159 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:02,240 else, who were had a little bit too much 160 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,400 fun at work, who drank a little bit too 161 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,560 much and had a little bit too much sex, 162 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,080 and put it into the world of the 163 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,000 hospital, which also felt like a really 164 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,240 great environment because at the time 165 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,520 there were very few female surgeons. I 166 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:16,800 don't think I knew that Grey's Anatomy 167 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,639 was a hit in in the sense of really 168 00:06:18,639 --> 00:06:21,759 knowing and I feel I feel fortunate 169 00:06:21,759 --> 00:06:23,199 about this. I don't think I knew that 170 00:06:23,199 --> 00:06:26,080 Grey's Anatomy was a hit until probably 171 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,039 season three and maybe the end of season 172 00:06:29,039 --> 00:06:33,199 3 mainly because I was busy making the 173 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:35,600 show. You know, we were lucky. We're on 174 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,000 a small lot. It was this bubble of a 175 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,160 lot. We all just stayed in our little 176 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,160 soundstages and our offices making our 177 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,400 show really hard. We worked too many 178 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,160 hours a day and it wasn't really hitting 179 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,080 me how the outside world was absorbing 180 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,360 the show at all. And 181 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,160 we went I think we went to New York or 182 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,759 something as a cast and we all were 183 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:01,759 staying in this hotel and we said, 184 00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:03,840 "Let's go to dinner." And we walked out 185 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:06,160 of the hotel and there were hundreds of 186 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,560 people outside the hotel and they were 187 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,520 screaming our names. Not just the 188 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,919 actor's names, but my name too. And 189 00:07:13,919 --> 00:07:16,080 everybody got really scared and we all 190 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,599 ran back inside and looked at each other 191 00:07:17,599 --> 00:07:18,639 and said, "What do you think is 192 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,039 happening?" And this is like maybe the 193 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:23,039 end of season two, maybe middle of 194 00:07:23,039 --> 00:07:24,319 season 3. Like, "What do you think is 195 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:25,840 happening?" Middle, it was the end of 196 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:26,720 season two. "What do you think is 197 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,160 happening?" And I said, "I don't know 198 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,919 what's happening." And we were like 199 00:07:29,919 --> 00:07:32,240 nervous. And somebody said, "I I think 200 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,599 those people are here for us." And I was 201 00:07:33,599 --> 00:07:34,560 like, "Well, they're screaming our 202 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,800 names." And we were like, we all were so 203 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:37,919 freaked out that we just went back 204 00:07:37,919 --> 00:07:39,599 upstairs and ordered room service 205 00:07:39,599 --> 00:07:42,319 because none of us could figure out like 206 00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:43,919 how did we get this popular without any 207 00:07:43,919 --> 00:07:45,680 of us knowing about it. It was very 208 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,000 strange. But we'd had our heads down 209 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,440 working so hard that none of us had 210 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,599 really noticed. The fact that people 211 00:07:51,599 --> 00:07:54,800 knew who I was still didn't register 212 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,919 anything for me at the time because on 213 00:07:57,919 --> 00:08:00,400 our show we had Sandra, we had Shandra, 214 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,800 and we had Shondaanda was me. And so we 215 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,400 always joked that anybody was going to 216 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,479 interchange our names at any time. And 217 00:08:06,479 --> 00:08:08,160 if you were yelling Shondaanda, I was 218 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,599 pretty sure you were yelling for Sandra 219 00:08:09,599 --> 00:08:11,680 or Shandra. So it never occurred to me 220 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,440 for a really long time that anybody 221 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,039 actually knew who I was. Um that didn't 222 00:08:17,039 --> 00:08:18,240 happen till that didn't occur to me 223 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,520 until later. I think it's 224 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,479 it's a very strange thing to be a writer 225 00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:27,680 and to have somebody know who you are by 226 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,840 looking at your face. I mean, I think 227 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,759 any writer in the world goes, I would 228 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,320 love it if people knew my name, right? 229 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,080 You you want that. You want somebody to 230 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,000 say, "There's James Patterson." You 231 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,440 know, when you see a book, like, you 232 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:40,800 know who James Patterson is. That's 233 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,240 that's the goal. Stephen King, you don't 234 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,080 want people to know your face. You want 235 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,240 to be able to walk around without people 236 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,920 knowing your face. That's never been a 237 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,040 thing that I thought was going to 238 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,320 happen. And having it happen was 239 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,279 stunning in a lot of ways. Interestingly 240 00:08:57,279 --> 00:09:00,080 enough, I think the things that I wish 241 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,680 that I had known then that I know now 242 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:05,680 are none of them have to do with 243 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,959 writing. All of them have to do with the 244 00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:12,240 business side of this industry. Um, 245 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,160 mainly because what was wonderful about 246 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,200 then and now is that now I know enough 247 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,160 to be afraid and know all the pitfalls 248 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,920 creatively. Then I was a free spirit. I 249 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,000 didn't know anything. So, I didn't know, 250 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,920 for instance, that I could be fired when 251 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,600 writing a television show for not doing 252 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,200 what the Sure Network wanted me to do. 253 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,560 So, I just behaved like someone who 254 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,560 couldn't be fired. I didn't know that 255 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:37,200 you didn't do something in this way, so 256 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,320 I did it that way and it worked. 257 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,640 The things I wish I did know are things 258 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,080 like um sort of how to get things done 259 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,880 better or how to run a show. They're 260 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,480 they're all things that really have to 261 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,160 do with the education that comes from 262 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,920 years of doing something. But then 263 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,800 I kind of love the fact that I sort of 264 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,800 walked into this and learned how to 265 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,000 write television by writing my show. One 266 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,360 of the things that's most meaningful for 267 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,480 me is when 268 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,680 I don't know young women come up and 269 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:11,760 tell me that they became doctors because 270 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,959 they watch Grey's Anatomy or when 271 00:10:14,959 --> 00:10:16,240 someone will come up and tell me that 272 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,440 they found the language to come out to 273 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,920 their parents because of Grey's Anatomy 274 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,640 or more when parents have language come 275 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,320 out to their children because of Grey's 276 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,240 Anatomy or when a woman of color will 277 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,399 come up to me and say, "I feel seen 278 00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:30,720 because of scandal." like those are the 279 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,560 moments that feel really really powerful 280 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:36,880 to me and um 281 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,640 make me feel good like I'm doing a good 282 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,920 job at least um and like make me want to 283 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,000 keep writing because somebody is getting 284 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,760 something from it. You know, most of the 285 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,560 time I'm not thinking about the audience 286 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:53,360 in that way because it's it's hard to 287 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,399 think about the fact that there are 288 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:56,320 people out there who are watching and 289 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,480 sort of depending on it in a in a way. 290 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,800 It's a lot of pressure. Most of the time 291 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,240 I'm just thinking, let me just tell a 292 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,680 good story. That's my job. Keep your 293 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,480 head down and tell a good story. But it 294 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,720 but it's nice to know that you're 295 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,160 helping somebody out there every once in 296 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,160 a while. That feels that's a really 297 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:13,440 powerful feeling and it's a big 298 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,760 responsibility. Here's the thing I 299 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,920 always think about when I think about 300 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,360 myself as a writer. And I feel like 301 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,640 sometimes people are surprised when I 302 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,079 say this and I am always like, why are 303 00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:26,720 you surprised? I feel like I just got 304 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,760 started. I mean, I just figured out how 305 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,240 to really do this. And I'm still 306 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,399 figuring out how to do this. Every time 307 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:35,920 I write something different or something 308 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,959 new, it's a discovery. Oh, you can do 309 00:11:38,959 --> 00:11:40,720 this with television or oh, you can do 310 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,440 that with television. Nobody knows what 311 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,880 they're doing. Nobody. Nobody's 100% 312 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,880 sure and 100% confident that they know 313 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,880 everything. I certainly am not. So, 314 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,399 in a weird way, I'm still teaching 315 00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:56,880 myself to be fearless and I'm still 316 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,200 discovering things and I'm still 317 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,880 learning as I go. And if I just feel I'm 318 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,760 just now starting to feel like I'm 319 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,320 comfortable and competent in the job, 320 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,440 then I have a long way to go towards 321 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,480 feeling like I've really mastered it. 322 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,000 And that's exciting because otherwise I 323 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,959 might as well quit. I always say I'm 324 00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:23,519 going to write Grey's Anatomy until I've 325 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:26,000 run out of ideas for Meredith or I'm 326 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,480 going to write television until I don't 327 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,720 have any more ideas for shows. 328 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,480 That's what drives me. I have stories to 329 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,160 tell. I'm a storyteller. As long as I'm 330 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:35,600 telling stories and as long as I feel 331 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,440 like I'm telling them well, then I'm 332 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,480 going to want to do this. 1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,080 So, now it's over. You've taken the 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,000 whole class. You're done. You've gone 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,440 through the whole thing. I'm hopeful 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,120 that maybe you have a script out of it 5 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:14,480 or you're going to have a script out of 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,960 it. What should you do now? Well, keep 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,880 watching the class. Refer back to it 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,480 every once in a while. Come back every 9 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,480 time you have a new idea, a new script, 10 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,080 a new question. Come back when you need 11 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,160 to be inspired. 12 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,840 Make sure that you keep writing. 13 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:31,439 Remember what we've said. A writer 14 00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:33,520 writes every day. Remember what we 15 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,280 talked about with dialogue. Whenever 16 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,200 you're feeling stuck, come back and like 17 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,879 check out a class every once in a while. 18 00:00:38,879 --> 00:00:40,960 It helps. So, I'm really glad you were 19 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,879 here. I'm really glad you came. I'm 20 00:00:42,879 --> 00:00:45,600 really glad you spent time with us. I 21 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,200 sort of can't believe that I got to have 22 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,360 this opportunity to sit and talk to you 23 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,280 and tell you about story and dialogue 24 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,079 and character. It was really fun for me, 25 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:55,760 much more fun than I even thought it 26 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,280 would be. and I was excited to do it in 27 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,600 the first place. Now, if you're feeling 28 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,960 really good about everything, what you 29 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,039 should be doing right now is turning me 30 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:05,519 off, going to your computer, and sitting 31 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,159 down to start writing immediately. I 32 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:10,240 hope it works for you. I think you're 33 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:11,680 going to find the stuff that you learned 34 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,040 so useful. And frankly, I can't wait to 35 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,640 see the television you produce because I 36 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,799 look forward to watching it. Have fun.